Please We Need Some Advice- Quick

[Diva]

we are still in the midst of training JP. he came to us with little training..... so to add this kind of extensive behaviour issues that rus must have (and it seems only toward JP) im worried we cant do it.

Most pups come with little training, that's just how it is. And you don't know what the extent of Rusty's issues are yet. Aggressive displays between dogs can be distressing to witness but getting worked up yourself is one thing guaranteed not to help.

I'm not sure about the 'only JP' comment - one of your previous posts said that Rusty was intolerant of a pug puppy in his previous home? I guess what I'm trying to say is manage the situation for everyone's safety for now, get good advice from Erny in the flesh on how to sort it, and try not to get too upset, it doesn't help. Good luck!

Edited October 17, 2008 by Diva

[Erny]

I had packed up by the time your PM came in MSB. Have now responded. Hope the coming of the day has seen you a bit more relaxed about the situation than you were last night. I'm not suggesting I don't believe you have a problem (because you do), but sometimes things can seem so much worse at night-time than daylight hours.

[percyk]

double post -sorry!

Edited October 17, 2008 by percyk

[percyk]

this could go either way and it depends on a lot of factors

firstly the dogs history with other dogs ( not just the jrt ) would be handy toknow

you did want a companion for your young dog, didnt you, so having a dog that is at best disinterested in playing and at worst aggressive defeats that purpose

we have had a multiple dog household for years now

generally it's peaceful although some can squabble over a toy or food if they find some but it's not full on attacks

the thing is - you can make your dogs tolerate each other - but they may not be buddies - you can make them live in peace by really working on your leadership ( you will need to read and read and talk toloads of people so you start getting that bit right as soon as possible) but if you want a dog to be living and romping happily with your dog then this may not be ideal dog

when i introduce a new pup - i do it one at a time and there is a varied reaction - from indifference to mild hostility ( that kind of herding harassment) but no biting has ever occurred - if there's an interest - a positive one then the dogs get on from day one and become buddies

since youre not introducing a puppy it's a whole lot harder

the jrt may have been the dominant or the submissive one but somehow the hierarchy at the moment isnt clear

you dont want your own dog's personality being changed either dogs can be overwhelmed and become withdrawn even if theyre not being aggressive back and that is sad - especially when the whole idea was to get him a friend

if your own dog is attached to you then that too cancause problems of possessiveness - your dog is still young but things can change as he matures and finally he may start to retaliate - this can happen weeks months or years

the fact that there was an attack indicates that the older dog has already started to take over and so you really need to show him who is boss

you can do this by walking him on his own and then have your partner (?) walk the other dog with you two between them

feed them separately of course for now but also make sure that noone gets any privileges like getting up on couches and beds

if youre petting one - have the other on a leash being held by someone - pet each one and give treats to the other one - as long as he is calm ..showing him that good things happen when the other dog is around

dont tolerate any growling or snapping - that sort of behaviour earns time out for a few minutes - any biting and the dog should be put somewhere where he cant see anything going on - then reintroduce him on the lead and do a bit of training where he is totally focussed on you not on the other dog

it can be done - of course it can - dogs that are quite horribly aggressive can be taught to behave and this is certainly not like that

but know your limitations - if your heart isnt in it it will be harder to help this dog to settle in but if youre feeling that youd really like to give this thing a go then take a deep breath and set your jaw (!) - there is no backing down when youre trying to establish dominance in a pack with yourself as leader and to insist on harmony between dogs

a behaviourist, like i said in another post will sometimes talk to you over the phone but i think in this case because the rescue is not a pup a consultation will be scheduled - some will charge you for talking to you - again around the 100 dollar mark

a consultation means you going out to the training centre for a couple of hours - sometimes three - some will charge around the 6oo dollar mark for this time and a follow up visit some will only charge about 300 which seems a lot but when youknow how others charge then it is cheap lol!!!

many behaviourists are booked solid on the weekends and you may have to wait a month or more - others will only give you a time slot during the week that is available - very little flexibility so you will need time off work

i dont see the purpose of going to a behaviour centre really because the problems often dont occur there - the dogs are not on familiar ground and so may not be displaying the sort of behaviour that you want sorted - alternatively they may be displaying behaviour that doesnt happen at home!

if you want them to come to your home, some will charge travelling time too

in the meantime you could join a training club - see what trainers say - but many trainers arent all that versed in these situations either so you have to be careful to listen to only what makes sense - and that comes from your own reading here and on other websites

i really feel for you - i know how stressful it can be when dogs dont get on - it's bad enough when you encounter them on the street but living on eggshells is not fun

not trying to play devils advocate - dont be afraid to return the dog if you think you cant handle this situation - spend the weekend talking to people if you can get advice on the phone

give it a couple of weeks and if there is no sign of improvement or if youre just too worried about your own dogs welfare- it's not worth it

rescuing is a noble thing but sometimes it's not for your particular situation especially cos you already have a dog that has its own needs

Edited October 17, 2008 by percyk

[Samodor]

Judi- Id had hope that by the new daylight Rus would of gotten over his issues with JP, but sadly its not the case.

Within a second of being out he was making it clear i was his and JP could not have a bar of it. When i tried to disciplne him, he growld at me and at JP... SO i got on the phone to a samoyed breeder who i have been talking to re; rusky and his rescue.

In a nutshell she said for whatever has happend to him in his past, he can not be with another samoyed or dog bigger than a JRT. OR a puppy. So adult dog only. He has obviously had a bad experience with a puppy....

Her biggest concern was my two kids and JP.

She said if by chance the kids got between or near rus when he was doing what he is doin to JP, you cant say what could happen, not that she thinks he would want to hurt the kids but in the midst of it last night he got my hand. He was very sorry icould see, but stil. ALSO as my concern has been, JP is so young still and will copy whatever he see's. We have not yet had any issues with him and id like it to stay that way.

So, i will get onto the phone to the samoyed rescue.

I am not just going to move him on, or put him in a pound. NO WAY. he is a great dog who on his own or with just smaller dogs would be perfect. Sadly this just isnt right.... but i will find him the place thats right...

[Erny]

Judi- Id had hope that by the new daylight Rus would of gotten over his issues with JP, but sadly its not the case. ...

breeder who ... said for whatever has happend to him in his past, he can not be with another samoyed or dog bigger than a JRT. OR a puppy. So adult dog only. He has obviously had a bad experience with a puppy....

Hi MSB. Have just responded to your PM. No way would I expect Rusky's behaviour to have changed overnight. After all, nothing else has changed so there would be no reason for him to have. I don't necessarily agree with the breeder that Rusky "has obviously had a bad experience with a puppy ... " nor necessarily any of the other of her assertions - there is no way she could know Rusky to make them, but to discuss that is irrelevant at this point.

That you have children, have considerable concerns for their safety and feel therefore it best to rehome Rusky is IMO reason enough for you to do so.

In this I wish you and Rusky good luck and as I mentioned in my PM to you, hope to hear of a happy ending for all.

Edited October 17, 2008 by Erny

[percyk]

i think you may be right

the dog may not bite intentionally when kids are around but they may get that deflected bite - where the dog is hyped up and will snap

dont feel badly

you tried and now you have the right to choose a suitable dog for your JP

as you said - your home isnt the right one - doesnt mean that Rusky cant find happiness elsewhere

hugs to you cos i know youll be feeling lousy ( but relieved i bet)

[Samodor]

Percy, your ppost has so many valid points, AND if rus was just snarling and slightly snapping id be happy to work on it but the attacking behaviour i just cant risk it. AND if J.P wasnt here, i know rus would of been perfect and if the kids werntm here, but jp and rus were id be happy to work on BUT facts are, kids are here, jp is here and my main goal for getting a 2nd dog was for a companion for JP.

2 nights ago while we were on our walk we came across a guy doing his mowing, he had a 18 month old lab out with him (his girl) and with his permission, her and jp played like there was just no tomorrow and THAT is what i am looking for for him. Someone that wants to be with him.

Percy- lousy doesnt cover it.... i feel just down right horrible.... to of given the rus the hope of a final forever home and it not work.... i could cry. My heart is in the right place.. but i also have to do whats right for everyone, dog and human involved.

I have been on the phone all morning to samoyed rescues and the breeder who i thoroughly respect and her advice is fantastic.

Judi- to is your advice, invaluable. And as said above if things were slightly different, i would of go on and tried as i do believe he is an awesome doggy....

i just feel horrible

[percyk]

yep im with you

it is so great when your dog has a real play mate - that kind of play we cant give them - hey!

and know this - this too will pass - bad times dont last!

( good ones are short too lol)

but now you have some experience and so it's not been a waste

[Samodor]

just been on the phone to the president of the samoyed club here in vic.

He is making some phone calls for me. Im just crossing my finger something comes from it.

The people we got him from are now saying they cant take him back. so, it is up to me...

I will find whatr is best for Rus... i know i will

[BIG-DOG-LOVER]

just been on the phone to the president of the samoyed club here in vic.

He is making some phone calls for me. Im just crossing my finger something comes from it.

The people we got him from are now saying they cant take him back. so, it is up to me...

I will find whatr is best for Rus... i know i will

So sorry it hasn't worked out how you had hoped

His previous owners sound like a caring bunch - not! Fancy saying that they can't take him back, that is horrible. I'm glad that you have Rus' best interests in mind.

I'm sure you will find a great home for him, don't beat yourself up over it too much....

[Rysup]

MySnowBoyz - you tried. As I said in the Spitz thread, you really will not know if you dont try. You tried, it did not work.

In my experience, a lot of older males just don't tolerate puppies well, but this sounds a bit deeper than that, if he is keeping JP away from you.

Find him a good home, and rest easy that you did try!

[Tonymc]

Snowboyz, how long have you had these dogs for? Tony

[Samodor]

Our boy (8mth old) for 3 months and the rescue (6 year old) since friday.

I understand that it has not been long, however, from all the people i have spoken too, 2 of them who have been involved with samoyed for over 30 years, the situation will not improve, at most the 6 year old , rus, will tolerate but barely but being the attack and hostility he has displayed and continues to display, they have advised it wont get better.

And seeing the risk's involved, and taking the advice we have been given, we have decided it is best for Rus to find a home more suited (without a large male dog).

The samoyed club of Vic are helping us with this which is just fantastic

[BigBen]

I think you've made the right choice.. Some dogs are just not suited to be with other dogs...

[Samodor]

Just want to thank everyone for all your help through this!!!

GREAT NEWS!!!!

I didnt realise but my mum has been recently considering getting herself a companion. She came over yesterday to mind the kids and well, guess what? she fell head over heels in love with Rusky and vise versa!!! lol so, he went home to his new, FOREVER home last night!!

Pleased to report he took over her bed and will not leave her side... he is one happy boy who is by her side as she does all daily doing's so he is ONE VERY HAPPY DOG!!!

I have always believed EVERYTHING HAPPENS AS IT IS MEANT TO HAPPEN... i should of known just because it turned out he was not meant for us, didnt mean i did the wrong thing by adopting him. He is now where, he is meant to be. I truly feel it.

And we have found the puppy who is right for our home... she isnt samoyed, and is 16 weeks but her and J.P just adore eachother, so..... after all my stressing last week.... things have AS THEY ALWAYS DO, worked out!!!!!

Again, thank you to EVERYONE who posted thier advice/thoughts/experience.... it was so appreciated!