Crate Training

[Madeleine]

Please help me.....

I have 2 adorable pugs..13 months and 8 months old...

Before we got our second one, our first used to sleep on the floor of our bedroom, and had a 'just in case' mat in the ensuite that she would use in emergencies only. This was fine...I slept my 8 hours, so did my husband and things were working well.

Then came number 2....(had been with her breeder till 5 months)...she came to us with demodex so was itchy and wasn't toilet trained - so that's when the sleeping became an issue....They've since been moved onto the tiles so Zara would learn where to go - ie was in an area with enough room for bed, bowl and toilet...which was fine - that worked ok, except they ate the walls and started crying at 5.45 am when the sun was getting up....So there went that one....

Next have tried having them sleep loose in the house - for the first couple of weeks it was great, I could sleep till about 6 which was better than 5.45 so I was kind of happy....now Zara is missing the 'just in case' toilet/mat mark, and pees about a metre away from it - on the carpet....consistently....it must be at around 4am that she goes so I don't catch her before to take her out...and currently they're waking me at 4.30 (I am a light sleeper - they don't wake my husband but as soon as there's movement outside our door I'm awake). I am crazy tired right now....and it's absolutely doing my head in. I've also tried letting them into our room at 4.30 after they've been outside but by that time they're full of beans and I'm awake awake so there's not much point, and they won't settle.

SO - I'm thinking that a crate is my only other option. I won't allow them to sleep outside - we have noisy neighbours who they bark at - they're noisy till about 11 some nights and they start their motorbikes by 5am as well. I don't want a complaint against them barking....and there are heaps of cats around so that'll get them going too....and as I am a constant worrier, I'm concerned that if they do manage to corner one about their bulgy little eyes....and there goes my sleep for the entire night....

Anywho - my questions:

1. 1 crate for both dogs or 2 separate crates? (they've been sleeping together though since we got them....but am worried as it is warming up so they might not want to snuggle - should we get one big enough for them both to sprawl out in?)

2. Do we literally go back to training like we would a baby puppy?? ie making the crate a nice place to be, rewards for being in there etc etc and ignoring whining etc.

3. what typ/brands of crates are best?

4. Are we really mean doing it to them now??

And does anyone have any other suggestions?? (apart from me taking some sleeping tablets so I don't hear them? or ear plugs)

Thanks in advance from a cranky tired woman.....

[Erny]

1. 1 crate for both dogs or 2 separate crates? (they've been sleeping together though since we got them....but am worried as it is warming up so they might not want to snuggle - should we get one big enough for them both to sprawl out in?)

One crate for EACH dog is my preference. Later on, when house-training is effected and all is well enough that you are able to leave crate doors open, they might opt to both snuggle together. That's ok. But IMO each dog should know there is his/her own space to go to if they want.

2. Do we literally go back to training like we would a baby puppy?? ie making the crate a nice place to be, rewards for being in there etc etc and ignoring whining etc.

Yes.

3. what typ/brands of crates are best?

Sturdy ones. Metal rather than the soft crates, until they are crate trained. Fold up crates (not the old styled 'pins in the corners' type - although I don't think they even sell them anymore). I purchase from Puppy Power Sales .... they have a warehouse in Dandenong South Victoria. I don't know if you live in Victoria or not, but they are also e-bay sellers. Great people to purchase through.

4. Are we really mean doing it to them now??

No - the dogs will appreciate the 'order' that you are bringing into their lives. They might object to the change in the routines (that THEY have set) initially, but that's normal. Provided you are consistent across the board with them, it will be fine.

And does anyone have any other suggestions?? (apart from me taking some sleeping tablets so I don't hear them? or ear plugs)

Toileting habits have gone out the window with the introduction of your second youngster. (I'm not a fan of there being 'emergency mats' - I prefer vigilence so dogs learn more quickly that toileting inside is not the go and this also helps to build 'substrate preference memory', which is where they develop a preference for (eg) the feel of grass beneath their feet for toileting. I think it is less confusing for them as well, in the long run.) When you begin with the crate training, don't expect them to hold on for the full 8 hours. Remember that your new youngster's bladder hasn't learnt to 'hold on'. Begin with a shorter period of time and then gradually move up in 1/2 hour increments.

There have been times where ear plugs have been utilised by some in those early days . Where will the dogs be crated? In your bedroom or out? You will possibly find there will be less vocalisation if the dogs are allowed to sleep in their crates in your room. Much depends on the reasons for the vocalisation. If you know your dogs have been and are given ample toilet opportunities, there should be no reason to respond to the vocalisation.

ETA: The crate should be large enough for each dog to stand up and turn around in. You can purchase a crate to suit the size of your youngest pup as he will be when he is an adult, but you may need to put in a divider so it is not too large that he has excess space, as this excess space might be used by him as his toilet and that will not be consistent with the toilet training you are doing. You can purchase dividers from some places for some if not most crates. Some people merely put a cardboard box or something similar, to take up the extra room. Depends on whether your youngster is going to be inclined to destroy the box as though it is some play thing.

Edited October 16, 2008 by Erny

[Pug Hugger]

I would normally go with a crate each - but mine refuse to sleep seperately. It was better for my peace of mind to purchase one large crate. Not ideal - but then most of my training probably fits into that category :rolleyes:

[Madeleine]

Thanks Erny and PugHugger....off to buy a crate or two this weekend

[percyk]

i always sleep with the new additions

as pups theyre on the end of the bed and i tether them to my arm so the minute theyre up i grab them and get them out to the backyard

they can hold on for a long time even at 10 weeks my dog was sleeping through til 6am after a toiletting at 11pm or 12 am

it is tiring but it is reliable - the dogs arent having accidents

sometimes even if you set your clock you wake them as youre approaching and they will go where you dont want them to go !

now about the crate

i have done this once

the dog didnt like it the first three nights and whined ( the crate was in my bedroom) - i totally ignored him and by the fourth night he settled straight away

later i could even toilet him when he got up and put him back in the crate so i could sleep another hour

this dog was not crate trained from an early age (but at about 16 weeks after initially being on the bed and tethered to me)

i realise pugs arent great bed companions cos they shed and you may not want dogs on your bed anyway ( i never did but a few years ago i read about this method and have stuck to it)

i read a book 'housebreak any dog' by audrey carr and lou ellen davis years ago and thats where i learned about tethering

you need to know where your dogs are all of the time so theres no chance of them going off somewhere private

so thats where you can crate train them or have them in a basket or mat but tethered to an eye hook in the skirting board or a heavy piece of furniture whenever youre at home with them

pugs arent the easiest dogs to train - many small dogs have problems with housebreaking - small bladder mentality

but the fewer accidents you have the more chance you have of getting them into a habit so clean thorougly with a solution of biozet and water ( that washing powder that breaks down urine and is much cheaper than the other urine cleaning products)

let them outside as much as possible too - some dogs just pick a favourite spot and learn that way

now that it is spring theymight enjoy being out when youre at home or just go sit out there with them

watch the heat in summer but i guess you know about heat and pugs!

id have the dogs separate for the time being - the one who is not trained at all should be the one closest to you for easy access

you can get a tarp and put the crate underneath it it only has a wire floor and then make it cosy with bedding

dont give up on the crating - i never crated but i do recommend it now

the dog really seems to like it

not that he goes in there during the daybut eventually i might move it downstairs ( wehave only one and its too much hassle to lug it down the stairs at the moment so it's up there only for night time)

good luck - forget their age and treat them like babies - that way you wont get frustrated!

remember lots of praise and even treats once they go outside

( if you want to paper train them to a spot inside then do so - lots of people who live in apartments do that with their little dogs and it is perfectly acceptable for some but othet people hate the idea so it's upto you)

Edited October 18, 2008 by percyk

[laffi]

I definitely think two crates is a MUCH better option. This was you can track the progress of each of them and it's easier for them to learn (if one keeps on peeing /pooping the other one might join as well which is not what you want to encourage).

I also think it's important that the dogs are independent of each other and crate training will also help with that.

I am also not a fan of emergency mats. My dog was house trained within 2-3 weeks (she was about 90% reliable at 10 weeks and 100% reliable at 14 weeks). I always made sure she went before going to sleep and during the training I would wake up at 2-3AM (then later and later eventually didn't have to wake up anymore). The less accidents they have (which means a lot of vigilance) the faster they will be house trained.