Phenomav

[morgan]

Currently having problems with a vet informing someone that there are absolutely no side effects associated with Phenomav - none whatsoever, perfectly and utterly safe.

From what I have read there seem to be possible temporary issues with ataxia and a need for regular testing of the liver due to possible damage, but the vet is adamant that this is garbage and that if someone looks on the net they can "find side effects for every single drug". Apparently these side effects are simply made up and put on the net as disinformation??

Does anyone have any reputable, scientific links on the side effects? Or even a copy of the manufacturer's insert?

[MolassesLass]

Technical Information

MSDS Info

[lucknow]

try going here, the extra info given for Phenomav is from manufacturer and includes side effects etc

oops, someone else did it faster and better

Edited October 14, 2008 by lucknow

[morgan]

Thanks - somehow I don't think polydipsia or polyphagia are a good idea for a bloat prone breed

I will pass these on to the owner who believes that this vet is infallible.

[stormie]

Liver disease is the main side effect. Not all animals become polydipsic. We regularly check the phenobarbitone levels for animals to make sure the right amount is being given, as well as checking for liver damage.

I assume the phenomav is for seizures? I would also assume the vet has deemed the phenomav necessary?

Seizures can be fatal, so in many cases, the possible side effects of the drugs are better than the possibility of death.

[~Anne~]

My Pug has been on phenomav for over 4 years. He suffers from some ataxia, polydipsia and polyphagia to varying degrees... he is a Pug though and so the latter is even more noticeable.

Overall though, his seizures have more chance of killing him then the drugs.

Edited to add: If the drug is being prescribed as an anti-epilpetic, Bromide may be more suitable but it also has it's side affects. As the Vet correctly said, there is potential for side ffects from all drugs and you have to weigh up this when looking at treating anyone or anything.

Edited October 14, 2008 by PugRescueSydney

[morgan]

Obviously if it was epilepsy there isn't much choice when it comes to controlling seizures, it would be a matter of coping with side effects and getting regular liver testing done, but the dog has never had a seizure, just a few unusual episodes with failure to recognise people and a change in his eyes. The owner is worried about possible aggression and prefers to medicate, whereas I feel that there might be less drastic approaches to try first and keep Phenomav as a last resort.

Ataxia is of great concern with a tall, large dog apart from the bloat issues with the polyphagia and polydipsia.

I am still very upset at this 'trusted' vet refusing to give the owner the correct information - there isn't a pharmaceutical drug in the world that is absolutely free of side effects, not even simple old aspirin, so for him to say that there were absolutely none with this drug is reprehensible, especially when they can be life threatening, either directly or indirectly.

[~Anne~]

They have to be on pretty high doses for the ataxia to really be a huge concern. Most of the lethargy and ataxic symptoms settle within 4 - 6 weeks.

[morgan]

Yes, I had thought that the ataxia was fairly temporary - but what about the polyphagia and polydipsia? How common are these? I have seen figures of 20% for liver problems, but nothing for the other 2.

Do wish the vet would actually discuss these issues instead of pretending they don't exist, then maybe the owner would ask for other options to be considered first.

[~Anne~]

Yes, I had thought that the ataxia was fairly temporary - but what about the polyphagia and polydipsia? How common are these? I have seen figures of 20% for liver problems, but nothing for the other 2.

Do wish the vet would actually discuss these issues instead of pretending they don't exist, then maybe the owner would ask for other options to be considered first.

I can't really say. Pugs are very, very food orientated and so as a consequence, my boy now suffers from pica. This in turn also increases his need to drink water. The majority of people I speak to with epileptic dogs that are on phenobarbitone do not have issues with this. Pugs, as you may be aware, will eat anything normally anyway and always behave like they are starved.

I do not see the side affects as anything that can not be managed and in my case particularly, with a dog that suffers clusters of seizures and who can have 60 seizures a year, I feel the side affects are nothing. Keep in mind he has this number even though he is on quite a high dose of pheno and he is also on bromide.

As I sadi, if you are concerned there are other drugs such as bromide and even keppra. These would need to be considered with the Vet's advice naturally.

In the US, Bromide is given as the drug of choice quite often. In Aust we still give pheno as the drug of choice.

[morgan]

Hehe - yep, I've seen pugs in action - was looking after one tiny girl that had to be fed very carefully so that she didn't choke on her food and I'm sure she would have kept eating until bursting point if I'd let her!

We are printing up the info to give to the owner so that she can see that there are side effects to consider - it is her dog and her choice after all.

[Zombie Bait]

Sorry OT, but my friend owns a male desexed sibe. He is epileptic, worse in the heat. He has just been put on a higher dose of his meds ( I think phenobarbitone) and he has developed a massive increase in appetitite and possible pica. He has just had surgery due to ingesting a sock (it got stuck in his stomach). They have found that he picks up everything and tries to eat it. Could this be because of his meds? He is 5 and has never done this before.

[lucknow]

Sorry OT, but my friend owns a male desexed sibe. He is epileptic, worse in the heat. He has just been put on a higher dose of his meds ( I think phenobarbitone) and he has developed a massive increase in appetitite and possible pica. He has just had surgery due to ingesting a sock (it got stuck in his stomach). They have found that he picks up everything and tries to eat it. Could this be because of his meds? He is 5 and has never done this before.

Could be, polyphagia in plain english is excessive appetite/hunger/eating and, as seen in previous posts, is a known side effect of Phenobarbitone.

[~Anne~]

Sorry OT, but my friend owns a male desexed sibe. He is epileptic, worse in the heat. He has just been put on a higher dose of his meds ( I think phenobarbitone) and he has developed a massive increase in appetitite and possible pica. He has just had surgery due to ingesting a sock (it got stuck in his stomach). They have found that he picks up everything and tries to eat it. Could this be because of his meds? He is 5 and has never done this before.

Absolutely it could be related to his meds. My Pug is a canine vacuum. He walks around hoovering up everything. We treat him like a toddler and ensure that all small mouth sized things are off the floor where we can but he still manages to eat some doozies.

The pica should settle a little once his body adjusts to the new doseage.

I recommend that thye feed him 2 - 3 smaller meals a day if they can, particularly if they are currently only feeding once daily. Pb can also make them feel a little nauseous if given without food, and as it is adminsitered 12 hourly, I would suggest that a minimum of 2 meals a day be fed.

[SueM]

My wee Chi is on Phenomav, so far touch wood apart from lethargy at the beginning of taking it he has no side effects at all, liver function normal and no seizures touchwood for 4 months now.