Successful Training Methods For Dog Aggression

[4 Paws]

Just wondering what training methods poeple who own dog aggressive dogs have used and if they were successful.What training tools did you use(collars etc)

I guess I'm needing a good outcome story to peep me up.I thought I was making good progress with my gsd who basically has "Learned" aggression and than yesterday we were sitting out the front and a guy walked past with his husky (didn't see him coming due to a car blocking the view)and my girl totally lost,I was totally dissapointed and now feel we've gone backwards

ETA-he was walking with his dog,she is not human aggressive

Edited October 10, 2008 by 4 Paws

[Cosmolo]

While it depends on the dog in question, i can give you a few examples of what has worked for a dog or two i have seen recently- not suggesting this would be appropriate for your dog as there are so many variables.

Dog one started with serious dog aggression- would react at a distance of 20 mtrs to any dog but was worse with small dogs. Would lunge, growl and snarl etc. Aggression's likely cause was lack of socialisation during critical period.

Combination of private training and group training using food rewards and tug rewards at different times as well as a correction chain with appropriate handling techniques.

Dog has now been introduced to a new resident dog successfully, can play at the park in the presence of dogs off lead (owner carefully chooses dogs that she will like) and can now also deal with short face to face meetings with dogs she does not like. She is calm and relaxed on walks- even with other dogs barking behind fences etc. The owner continues to train regularly to maintain her skills. Her obedience skills are excellent even with other dogs running close to her.

I would never call her cured but she can now enjoy regular walks and exercise with her owner and has a play mate that helps her to continue to learn how to interact.

[4 Paws]

Thanks for your reply Cosmolo,I'm not really sure what started my girls aggression as I didn't get her till she was older but it's defianetly learned

I had been training with a combination of corrections(prong collar) and food rewards and than started attending a local obedience club where naturally I was not allowed to use the prong so we went back to a limited slip (1/2 leather)and still used corrections(she was also showing signs of fear,shaking etc).Unfortunately one of the instructors there took her from me one day before training and took her for a walk and when she reacted he hit her across the nose with the leather lead.Naturally I was not happy so have not taken her back

I have started seeing a private trainer who does not allow corrections and I've seen him 3 times and don't really feel we've made any progress using his methods,infact I think she reacting to dogs at more of a distance than she previously was.

Previously At obedience I was actually able to get within about 1 1/2 mts while heeling whereas now its quite a bit further

[Nekhbet]

a trainer that will not even consider one part of dog training should not be used with aggression. Aggression is one of those things where you have to think outside the square - there can be so many different factors and angles to consider which cannot be fixed with ONE type of training. I'm not saying your trainer is not working, aggression is one of those things that takes time, but ask him why he does not consider corrections at all to decrease the reaction or keep the dog in line. Aggressive/fear biting dogs dont need pandering they need leadership.

Corrections by themselves are not the be all and end all BUT as cosmolo said, used in conjunction with other methods it can assist in showing the dog their response is not appropriate in this instance.

As for the training whacking your stressed dog on the nose I would have slapped them with the leash some people should accept their limitations

I have helped an aggressive, adolescent bully of a dog with minimal to no corrections only because the family was not capable. And he was big too. It took a long time and he could have done with a couple of corrections to get him really into line but you can only work with what you go. He got to a trustworthy level within the home at least but at dog club he was still difficult - again the owner was not capable of handling properly and a pinch collar would have saved a lot of trouble - darn vic laws.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Nekhbet

[Cosmolo]

If the problem is getting worse, i would firstly discuss with your private trainer to see if they can offer other techniques. If you previously corrected and now cannot- the dog could be quite confused. I see many dog aggressive dogs where purely positive techniques are impractical due to not being able to control other dogs breaching your dogs critical distance.

[4 Paws]

The private trainer is a Delta trainer

Thanks for your input

[Erny]

Hi 4 Paws.

As I am sure you are aware, leadership is a very important and vital component towards improving on many problematic behaviours, especially aggression related issues. Leadership needs to be exhibited sufficiently for the dog to perceive, then rely and trust in and finally to take for granted, so to speak. I don't know how long you have been working with your GSD on this issue and I assume you have been vigilant with your leadership signals, but it could be that perhaps your GSD isn't up to the point of being able to merely assume your status and the fact you were sitting down at the time might have made a difference to him.

Add that to the possibility that you were "out the front" and that there may be a mix of territorial behaviour in there. I'm not suggesting your dog's behaviour is therefore acceptable, but recognising the circumstances might help you to not despair so much. It may in fact not be a case of having gone "backwards", even though it is something you still need to still work towards.

ETA: I recall all those many years ago when I adopted my avatar girl who had fear aggression issues. I do recall those times when it sometimes seemed to be 3 steps forward and one step backward. Yet in all, it added up to being a learning curve that was headed in the right direction.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Erny

[baker_girl]

Dog one started with serious dog aggression- would react at a distance of 20 mtrs to any dog but was worse with small dogs. Would lunge, growl and snarl etc. Aggression's likely cause was lack of socialisation during critical period.

Can I ask...with young pups that display similar beahviour to other dogs when walking, such as lunging or jumping to try and get to the dogs, should this behaviour be corrected early on? I know with young pups they are still excited and want to socialise with other dogs. I try to control my dog and get her to sit or not jump but is this normal beahviour early on?

[~*Shell*~]

Just wondering what training methods poeple who own dog aggressive dogs have used and if they were successful.What training tools did you use(collars etc)

I guess I'm needing a good outcome story to peep me up.I thought I was making good progress with my gsd who basically has "Learned" aggression and than yesterday we were sitting out the front and a guy walked past (didn't see him coming due to a car blocking the view)and my girl totally lost,I was totally dissapointed and now feel we've gone backwards

I used a prong collar with Zero after going out to see Steve at K9 Force. He's gone from being so dog aggressive he would drag me onto the street if he saw another dog to sitting down next to me, watching me when he sees another dog to see how I'm going to react to it first.

I can take him to training and he's actually started playing with other dogs now and he has doggie friends! He still has the occasional growl but can have a dog lunge at him aggressively without a reaction. If i stay calm, he stays calm.

Don't give up! The number of times I was depressed about Zero was incredible - now i'm so proud of my boy!

[Erny]

Can I ask...with young pups that display similar behaviour to other dogs when walking, such as lunging or jumping to try and get to the dogs, should this behaviour be corrected early on? I know with young pups they are still excited and want to socialise with other dogs. I try to control my dog and get her to sit or not jump but is this normal beahviour early on?

Appropriate behaviour is NOT lunging or jumping at or towards other dogs. The trouble is, the pups are removed from their litter and we humans don't continue the education they would otherwise often learn. This inappropriate and rude 'greeting' is what causes many dog aggression incidents. So yes - it is good if you show your pup the way appropriate greeting and approach should be. Pups need to be shown the way to learning self control, just as human children do in the course of their development.

[baker_girl]

Can I ask...with young pups that display similar behaviour to other dogs when walking, such as lunging or jumping to try and get to the dogs, should this behaviour be corrected early on? I know with young pups they are still excited and want to socialise with other dogs. I try to control my dog and get her to sit or not jump but is this normal beahviour early on?

Appropriate behaviour is NOT lunging or jumping at or towards other dogs. The trouble is, the pups are removed from their litter and we humans don't continue the education they would otherwise often learn. This inappropriate and rude 'greeting' is what causes many dog aggression incidents. So yes - it is good if you show your pup the way appropriate greeting and approach should be. Pups need to be shown the way to learning self control, just as human children do in the course of their development.

I plan on going to further obedience once she's old enough. At the moment we've finished socialisation classes and just reinforcing the training learnt. To be honest I'm not sure what the best way to show a pup self control or how to do appropriate greetings. If I'm walking and I see another dog approaching, I don't want to completely steer clear because I think it's important to have that socialisation but I try to calm her by either getting her attention as we walk or even getting her to sit if she's overly excited?? Is that what's recommended? Should I just walk straight past so that she isn't so preoccupied with the other dog passing her??

[Erny]

If I'm walking and I see another dog approaching, I don't want to completely steer clear because I think it's important to have that socialisation but I try to calm her by either getting her attention as we walk or even getting her to sit if she's overly excited?? Is that what's recommended? Should I just walk straight past so that she isn't so preoccupied with the other dog passing her??

What you do depends also on the other dog. Just as your pup needs to learn appropriate approach, you need to be sure that the other dog's approach is safe and not so inappropriate to be overwhelming for your pup either. Assuming all is well in relation to both dogs/pups, I hold pup by collar to prevent him from jumping up and around and give quiet praise when the dogs are greeting appropriately. My 'control' is firm yet simultaneously gentle. IE Not about being a vice like grip, provided of course he is being relatively calm as well.

As an aside ... you say you've finished socialisation classes? How old is your pup?

[baker_girl]

What you do depends also on the other dog. Just as your pup needs to learn appropriate approach, you need to be sure that the other dog's approach is safe and not so inappropriate to be overwhelming for your pup either. Assuming all is well in relation to both dogs/pups, I hold pup by collar to prevent him from jumping up and around and give quiet praise when the dogs are greeting appropriately. My 'control' is firm yet simultaneously gentle. IE Not about being a vice like grip, provided of course he is being relatively calm as well.

As an aside ... you say you've finished socialisation classes? How old is your pup?

Ok thanks. Well I'll try to hold her by the collar gentley yet firmly. If the other dog approaching seems just as excited or off lead as I've experienced on some walks, I do try to avoid the situation all together.

She's 4 months old and we've finished the puppy pre school classes which is what I mean by socilisation. The next step is basic obedience but the trainer we'd like to go with has advised waiting until 5 months.

[persephone]

OP-

no stories, but if you are not 100%comfortable with the trainer's response, maybe try another one .

[4 Paws]

Hi 4 Paws.

As I am sure you are aware, leadership is a very important and vital component towards improving on many problematic behaviours, especially aggression related issues. Leadership needs to be exhibited sufficiently for the dog to perceive, then rely and trust in and finally to take for granted, so to speak. I don't know how long you have been working with your GSD on this issue and I assume you have been vigilant with your leadership signals, but it could be that perhaps your GSD isn't up to the point of being able to merely assume your status and the fact you were sitting down at the time might have made a difference to him.

Add that to the possibility that you were "out the front" and that there may be a mix of territorial behaviour in there. I'm not suggesting your dog's behaviour is therefore acceptable, but recognising the circumstances might help you to not despair so much. It may in fact not be a case of having gone "backwards", even though it is something you still need to still work towards.

ETA: I recall all those many years ago when I adopted my avatar girl who had fear aggression issues. I do recall those times when it sometimes seemed to be 3 steps forward and one step backward. Yet in all, it added up to being a learning curve that was headed in the right direction.

I did think that may have contributed actually and the other dog was barking back as well.

Have a session booked in tomorrow with the trainer so will play it by ear to see how she goes before deceiding where to go

I have been given the phone number of another trainer by another DOL'er who comes down this way so may speak to him beofre I deceied my next step

[Erny]

Ok thanks. Well I'll try to hold her by the collar gentley yet firmly.

It is a matter of literally showing her what is appropriate.

She's 4 months old and we've finished the puppy pre school classes which is what I mean by socilisation. The next step is basic obedience but the trainer we'd like to go with has advised waiting until 5 months.

Be sure to keep the socialisation experiences going (and know that "socialisation" is not only about dogs meeting dogs and people .... it is about all manner of experiences such as noises, surfaces, etc. etc.)

ETA: 4-Paws ... sorry about the thread hi-jack. Good luck with when you see the trainer and don't despair.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Erny

[dee lee]

Aggression is one of those things where you have to think outside the square - there can be so many different factors and angles to consider which cannot be fixed with ONE type of training. I'm not saying your trainer is not working, aggression is one of those things that takes time, but ask him why he does not consider corrections at all to decrease the reaction or keep the dog in line. Aggressive/fear biting dogs dont need pandering they need leadership.

This has been something I have discovered with my dog. With help from my trainer I have tried several different approaches with varying success. Finally after following my instincts (me being the one who knows my dog best) and in consultation with the trainer, I seem to have hit on the root of the problem and are (touch wood) now able to keep her aggression under control. She is a much calmer dog for it too, but it has taken some months of soulsearching and tears (comtemplation of PTS too at one point) to even begin to see a glimmer of hope. We are not out of the woods yet either but I feel much more positive (this week anyway!! I'll be posting an identical topic next week no doubt )

We work very hard on our leadership but really each dog is different and there are obviously factors that have turned our dogs aggressive that we can never be sure of which is why it can take more time for some dogs. ( Does that make sense? I do ramble sometimes )

Hugs to you 4 Paws and keep at it- maybe next week will be better.

[RL1]

Hi 4 Paws.

As I am sure you are aware, leadership is a very important and vital component towards improving on many problematic behaviours, especially aggression related issues. Leadership needs to be exhibited sufficiently for the dog to perceive, then rely and trust in and finally to take for granted, so to speak.

That isn't the case with my dog. He's an angel at home and doesn't put a foot out of line and knows i'm the boss, but get out in public and he's another dog, doesn't listen or do a thing i say.

[Erny]

Hi 4 Paws.

As I am sure you are aware, leadership is a very important and vital component towards improving on many problematic behaviours, especially aggression related issues. Leadership needs to be exhibited sufficiently for the dog to perceive, then rely and trust in and finally to take for granted, so to speak.

That isn't the case with my dog. He's an angel at home and doesn't put a foot out of line and knows i'm the boss, but get out in public and he's another dog, doesn't listen or do a thing i say.

Not quite sure what you're alluding to here RottyLover01. Could be that your dog loses his confidence when outside the family home and this is where lack of his perception of or trust in your leadership shows up. I wouldn't know, but it is food for thought.

You were booked in to see K9 Force at some stage soon, weren't you? Or did it turn out that you can't make it down there?

Edited October 10, 2008 by Erny

[RL1]

Not quite sure what you're alluding to here RottyLover01. Could be that your dog loses his confidence when outside the family home and this is where lack of his perception of or trust in your leadership shows up. I wouldn't know, but it is food for thought.

You were booked in to see K9 Force at some stage soon, weren't you? Or did it turn out that you can't make it down there?

Yes possibly, but i don't know why he does it. It would be a big help if i could find someone who could show me the basics of handling this type of dog and what to do when he decides not listen ect. Even the most suitable collar and leash ect. to use. Usually he's just put in the too hard basket........I was booked in last month, but couldn't attend. There is a workshop up here in November, but i really need a personal assessment done with this dog.