ruthless Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) If you had a fear aggressive dog who had improved heaps, but still couldn't be 100% trusted, would you let it have an offlead romp in a fenced park with another dog with the same semi-resolved issues, while they were both muzzled? They'd be walked together beforehand and only be let play if they were relaxed around each other. ETA vital piece of info! Edited October 9, 2008 by ruthless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EISHUND Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Is this a question about letting them have a romp offlead, or a 'muzzled' romp offlead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) No. Edited October 9, 2008 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 A muzzled romp offlead, making sure no other dogs came into the park while they were there. Why do you say no PF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Because I honestly think there's a fair bit of potential for things to go wrong and the dog I'd want my fear aggressive dog to meet would be disinterested/non reactive, not to have issues of its own. Two dogs with isses = trouble to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyZ Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I wouldn't let a muzzled dog offleash full stop but that is MHO. I agree with Poodlefan. Work on the dog some more before letting them offleash - something is holding you back from doing that by asking this question so it isn't the right time. Bec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I agree with PF - I would only let a dog with issues off with a non reactive dog who the dog with issues knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 So if I found a non-reactive dog to have an offlead romp with, would both dogs be muzzled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 One more thing to bear in mind.. raise the dogs' arousal levels (eg. by allowing them to belt around) and you may well lower their thresholds to react. A small incident becomes mirrored to a highly aroused dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 I wouldn't let a muzzled dog offleash full stop but that is MHO. Why is that? The park I was thinking of is quite small and only has one gate, it'd be very easy to make sure no other dogs came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 I don't think I would do muzzled? Not sure, I haven't done the muzzle thing. Certainly would only do muzzle if the dogs were accustomed to them and not worried about them. I am notoriously paranoid about letting mine offlead with other dogs (ask sidoney and Vickie ) so not that much help I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyZ Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) In my experience, having a muzzled dog with aggression issues offleash just heightens their reaction. Good for others, in that they can't get bitten, but not good for the muzzled dog itself in helping with its aggression/reaction. I think about why the dog is acting aggressively and will being offleash with a muzzle help that or hinder it. Plenty of people wouldn't agree with me so you have to do what is right by your dog. It might be worthwhile to get a trainer/behaviouralist out. Bec. Edited October 9, 2008 by becboo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 One more thing to bear in mind.. raise the dogs' arousal levels (eg. by allowing them to belt around) and you may well lower their thresholds to react. A small incident becomes mirrored to a highly aroused dog. We've been watching how she plays with the others at home and she's being really good. She knows when to back off and I thought it may be time to step things up and start seeing how she interacts with other dogs. I know someone else with a dog with similar issues so I thought it might be good for both of them, I suppose in the back of my mind I knew finding a stable dog would be the more intelligent option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 dont take one step foreward and 20 steps back. If you dog is not on lead you have no control. All you are avoiding is your dog taking a chunk out of the other NOT preventing the aggression part. Letting a dog off lead that has problems is pretty much giving it free rein to stuff up. Not all dogs can handle playing with dogs out of their own pack. If you can walk yours past another dog without her reacting then why not leave it at that. There will always be that handful of dogs that will not be social butterflies and its easier for dog and owner if they know what will happen - you're not goign to have to cope with being badgered by other dogs without me around so chill. The fact the other dog has semi-resolved issues is completely iffy. If both muzzled start fighting then you are beyond being back to square one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruthless Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 I want to do more than manage the problem though, I want to cure her. I accept that a playdate with another fear aggressive dog was a stoopid idea But it's my understanding that in order for her to move forward, she needs to start meeting other dogs. I know she may never be a social butterfly, or a dog that can chase a ball in the park, and that's ok, but I'd like her to not be afraid anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) I want to do more than manage the problem though, I want to cure her. I accept that a playdate with another fear aggressive dog was a stoopid idea But it's my understanding that in order for her to move forward, she needs to start meeting other dogs. I know she may never be a social butterfly, or a dog that can chase a ball in the park, and that's ok, but I'd like her to not be afraid anymore. If you want to do that Ruthless, my strong recommendation is that you do so under the supervision and guidance of a professional who deals with aggression issues on a daily basis. There are quite a few folk who believe that you don't 'cure' aggression.. merely increase a dogs tolerance and thresholds to react to triggers to it. Edited October 9, 2008 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) is she completely curable though or will it just come down to management? Sometimes owner expectations and what the dogs limit will be are two different things. ETA completely agree with poodlefan. And I would not let her off leash with ANY dog no matter how 'good' it is Edited October 9, 2008 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammyZ Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) I want to do more than manage the problem though, I want to cure her. I accept that a playdate with another fear aggressive dog was a stoopid idea But it's my understanding that in order for her to move forward, she needs to start meeting other dogs. I know she may never be a social butterfly, or a dog that can chase a ball in the park, and that's ok, but I'd like her to not be afraid anymore. With some dogs you can't 'cure' them, all you can do is manage. I have one sitting at my feet! Having said that, it is different from dog to dog, so definitely get a session booked with a reputable trainer/behaviouralist and take it from there. Nekhbet - you said it so much more eloquently than me Does she really need to be offleash or is that something that you yourself want? I would love to have a dog that I can have offleash but it just isn't going to happen with Angel and once I realised that a weight lifted. I was wanting her offleash for my sake iykwim. Not saying that this is the case with you but just thought I would bring it up. Bec. Edited October 9, 2008 by becboo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 ETA completely agree with poodlefan. And I would not let her off leash with ANY dog no matter how 'good' it is Ill add to this - If the other person is a pet owner with limited training knowledge while you are fixing your dog, if things go wrong you could potentially be stuffing up someones perfectly good dog. You need a person that knows a lot aobut training and has multiple non reactive dogs. I think you have enough knowledge to deal with the situation on your end, you need someone that has enough knowledge and few good dogs to train with. This was always my problem - I could never find those people with those dogs.... And no Im not offering - Reason as per my first sentence in this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonElite Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 What have you achieved with this dog so far? Is it Trixie? Why do you want to progress? Are you 100% happy with the level she is at right now and thats why you want to move on? Have you walked with this other dog on lead several times with no issues? have the dogs said hello on lead with no issues? Issues I mean no hackles, no body stiffening etc? How is the dogs recall? ecollar doable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now