Your Puppy Preschool Experiences

[ally19]

I took my Westy pup to a vet clinic for puppy school. I had already socialised her a little bit (she was 14 weeks when she started) prior to puppy school, and all was going well. I found puppy school really didn't help Mia. It was free for all, and a couple of the dogs in our opinion were too boistrous/strong for the smaller puppies. Mia was sore after the first session, and looking back we really shouldn't have gone again. A large percentage of the lesson, she spent under chairs keeping away from dogs she was nervous of. I would never ever go to a free for all session again. Yes its important for them to get to know all sizes of dogs etc, but not to get trampled and bullied.

[lucylotto]

Our class included large and small breeds.

I found that the bullies were lab puppies. At the

end they had to be restrained for the entire class so the others

could play peacefully

We only went to puppy school x2. In hindsight should have shopped around for course content. Like the sound of cosmo course with practical advice re health, doggie psychology, toilet training, milestones, council rules etc.

Both weeks were exactly the same so my friend and I had learned enough about sit, drop and stay to continue on at home with (not planning serious doggie school). there was no other content, to be fair we didn't go back again so maybe that was covered later.

The class was huge,around x15-20. Luckily outside. The class size meant we were spread out far and wide, difficult to hear, no time for any familiarity between trainer and dog/owner as too many to get around. I would like to try a more intimate setting.

The playtime was all in together big and small and yes, the larger breeds dominated but I thinks its a combination of size plus exuberance not aggressive or bullying. Labs are very good at this behaviour and can be threatening to small dogs and small kids as they don't really know their own strength. mine and my friends dog who is a toy poodle stayed close to us and were too wary and I think tired to mix. I also thought being young they were worn out after a 30mins in the training paddock, they just crashed as they hadn't had a sleep prior to class.

[Cam]

We started PPS last week.

Its a four week course.

Our little Boston Terrier is very excitable and loved people but hadn't met too many dogs.

He was so hypo but by the end of the hour getting tired.

From memory we went through the following things.

- bit of on leash playing and puppy intros

- intro - human names and pet name along with breed/sex etc

- pass the puppy - The trainer said its a good way to get puppies used to being handled by lots of people. This helps with general human socialisation but more importantly when they have to go to the vet and need to be picked up. Some puppies were past, others walked on leads depending on size and how they were acting

- Off leash playing for big pups.

- Off leash playing for small pups.

- Then getting them all out for a while.

- Last thing of the night was basic obedience. Calling the dogs name, come, sit.

In between each of these activities the trainer spoke about toilet training, cleaning up, issuing commands etc. A fair bit I had read about.

I guess one thing is she was able to get every pup to come and sit without much hassle, even if they did decide to wander off trying to sniff/play with other pups.

I was mainly hoping to get some socialisation between pups so he isn't so psycho at the park, so everything else is a bonus.

I guess from week ones experience I am more than happy to recommend the company and will definetly be continuing after PPS (which I believe is very important)

If I remember I will report back after week 2.

If anyone wants to know the company PM me.

[Zombie Bait]

We have taken both our dogs to the same puppy preschool. Its a 4 week course run on Sundays mornings outdoors.

We chose to go to this particular PPS as nobody would take Brembo on as their courses didnt start for a couple of weeks and they felt he would be too big. The one we eventually went to ran courses all the time so we they took him straight away.

The good things:

*we learnt sit, stay, drop, loose lead walking, recall.

*how to desensitise a dog to vet examinations

the bad things:

*play time ended up being a free for all - brembo consistently got "mauled" by a mini(?) staffy pup and when he finally arked up about it HE got labeled as the aggresive dog

*it was quite often cold and the grass was covered in dew, not an issue for Brembo but Sierra hates the cold and hates getting wet. On her first week at PPS it was blowing a gale and about 8 degrees. I was frozen and I had 2 coats on. Sierra was a shivering wreck and they told me she was obviously very scared and nervous. Uh, no, she's just freezing her thinly coated little butt off. She then point blank refused to sit or drop on the wet grass. Again I dont blame her.

*they really pushed purely positive training, no chokers, nothing negative etc. I really think in hindsight Sierra would of benifitted from a choke chain or martingale but they really disapproved of both. Only flat collars, head collars or harnesses were allowed in class.

Brembo graduated and is such an easily trainable dog hence why we took Sierra to the same one. But she is a completely different dog, very high energy and stubborn and not so easy to train. As a result we were made to feel like "bad owners" because she didnt respond very well to their style of training.

We completed the course with Brembo but didnt attend week 4 of Sierra's course as we felt that Sierra and us werent getting much out of it.

Desexing, worming, flea treatments etc was only lightly touched on.

[fbaudry]

Not too sure what to make of my puppy preschool....

I got Archie (cocker spaniel) a month ago when he was already four months old. He came from a reputable breeder but had very little exposure to anything outside his kennel environment and was quite fearful for the first couple of weeks. I didn't give and insisted in giving him exposure to the street, different people etc every day (eventhough he hated it and turned into a pancake, flat on the ground, everytime we passed the front door). He has improved tremendously since and is now confident, playful and boisterous, the way a cocker puppy should be! we just need to get over the housetraining hurdle

Anyway, as he was so fearful to start with I was really anxious to book him in some sort of PPS and didn't really find one that I fell very comfortable with so I went with the breeders recommendation and went for the first time last week.

That's an hour fifteen minutes drive from home but I was willing to try it since the breeder highly praised it. With Thursday night traffic, I got there 2 minutes late (not good as I really wanted to get my bearings and get there early ) and entered after the session had just started to the following sight:

Around 20 people kneeling around in a shed, holding their puppies lying on their side on the ground. I quickly went to the last empty spot, next to a 13 weeks old dingo puppy who was struggling and whining.... Archie can be a bit vocal at times when he hears other dogs barking, and he was completely over excited at the sound of this puppy, plus a few cattle dogs pups who were also struggling and crying. I was told to put him into position and growl at him everytime he struggled or cried, which is what the other owners were doing. Luckily he quickly settled as I really hated that bit and thought I would leave straight away.

After a while most of the dogs settled, except for this little dingo and an eight week old cattle dog pup who struggled throught the whole class....

We were told to repeat this exercise at home every day for 30 minutes (in a row) to establish dominance over our dogs.

The rest of the class was what I guess are the usual basics, sit, down & stand , have feet and teeth checked etc.... No playtime or interaction between dogs at any time.

I have paid upfront for the 6 weeks course and honestly I am not sure if I want to go back this week. Maybe I am wrong but I have been reading about positive reinforcement, positive training (Ian Dunbar, etc) and this seems to go against everything I've read thus far. I really thought this dominance thing was old fashioned and completely over the top (I admit thinking it was ok at times when watching Cesar Millan rehabilitating border case dogs) especially for young puppies...

I'd be curious to see what other DOLers think of that... Archie didn't seem traumatised, but on that night he peed and pooped in his pen. Maybe it was just a coincidence?

On the other hand we've been to 2 sessions of general dog training with Steve Austin and both loved it! Again it is not meant for socialisation with other dogs (there is no play sessions) but I felt much more comfortable with these.

What do you guys reckon? should I persevere with PPS or just admit I've lost 120$ and forget about it?

[huski]

No way would I be staying at that puppy school fbaudry!!! Any puppy school that advocates alpha rolling (and I am all for negative reinforcement at the right times) is not one I would be interested in going to. Ridiculous!

[Tibbiemax71]

The PPS I went to was run by nurses who have no idea about behaviours, they thought it was OK for a Boxer Puppy to be bouncing all over a Shih x Malt puppy, the little pup was frightened and so started using defensive behaviour to fend off the Boxer, snapping and screaming, the nurses where saying "that is good, he is putting the Boxer in his place" :p Also they have "free for alls". Needles to say my Tibbie baby spend most of the time on my lap as I wasn't putting her down to get rumbled with the rest of them, I stopped going after the first lesson.

[katbod]

Around 20 people kneeling around in a shed, holding their puppies lying on their side on the ground. I quickly went to the last empty spot, next to a 13 weeks old dingo puppy who was struggling and whining.... Archie can be a bit vocal at times when he hears other dogs barking, and he was completely over excited at the sound of this puppy, plus a few cattle dogs pups who were also struggling and crying. I was told to put him into position and growl at him everytime he struggled or cried, which is what the other owners were doing. Luckily he quickly settled as I really hated that bit and thought I would leave straight away.

After a while most of the dogs settled, except for this little dingo and an eight week old cattle dog pup who struggled throught the whole class....

We were told to repeat this exercise at home every day for 30 minutes (in a row) to establish dominance over our dogs.

The rest of the class was what I guess are the usual basics, sit, down & stand , have feet and teeth checked etc.... No playtime or interaction between dogs at any time.

I have paid upfront for the 6 weeks course and honestly I am not sure if I want to go back this week. Maybe I am wrong but I have been reading about positive reinforcement, positive training (Ian Dunbar, etc) and this seems to go against everything I've read thus far. I really thought this dominance thing was old fashioned and completely over the top (I admit thinking it was ok at times when watching Cesar Millan rehabilitating border case dogs) especially for young puppies...

I'd be curious to see what other DOLers think of that... Archie didn't seem traumatised, but on that night he peed and pooped in his pen. Maybe it was just a coincidence?

On the other hand we've been to 2 sessions of general dog training with Steve Austin and both loved it! Again it is not meant for socialisation with other dogs (there is no play sessions) but I felt much more comfortable with these.

What do you guys reckon? should I persevere with PPS or just admit I've lost 120$ and forget about it?

I think you already know the answer to this! Follow what your instincts tell you. I always advise anyone taking their dogs to classes to go and sit in on a class without their dog first. If the methods make you uncomfortable go somewhere else. I've run puppy classes before and they never involved alpha rolls! You can teach a dog manners and good training without anything like an alpha roll. Especially puppies! It's a shame if you can't get the $120 back (try though!) but if not then take it as a learning experience. If you continue with that class you may just end up having to pay more money later on if your dog develops other behavioural issues because of it. On the positive side you can know that you're helping me to see what training can be like here (I recently moved here from England) and inspiring me to set up classes!

[fbaudry]

I think you already know the answer to this! Follow what your instincts tell you. I always advise anyone taking their dogs to classes to go and sit in on a class without their dog first. If the methods make you uncomfortable go somewhere else. I've run puppy classes before and they never involved alpha rolls! You can teach a dog manners and good training without anything like an alpha roll. Especially puppies! It's a shame if you can't get the $120 back (try though!) but if not then take it as a learning experience. If you continue with that class you may just end up having to pay more money later on if your dog develops other behavioural issues because of it. On the positive side you can know that you're helping me to see what training can be like here (I recently moved here from England) and inspiring me to set up classes!

Glad I didn't go in vain and helped you with your research! I do find it extremely difficult to find a place one is comfortable with... I didn't like the few I rang up just from their condescending attitude, and the fact they didn't seem to teach you much at all. I went to that one without really investigating, purely on the basis the breeder was raving about it...

So i guess it is no puppy preschool for Archie, but thank god we have the dog training with Steve Austin, that is a real god sent!

Good luck with setting up your own class, and do not hesitate to contact me if you want names of no so good classes in Sydney , I have a few on my list

ETA: I signed the petition!

Edited October 15, 2008 by fbaudry

[Guest june.andnovas]

I'm currently waiting on a call regarding PPS classes in Perth. There is one lady called Megan who does the classes between two clinics and the receptionist at both clinics couldn't stop telling me how good Megan was at her training. So she has classes starting very early Nov so I'm thinking I will just go with her. Hopefully she calls this afternoon and i can ask her what she does in her classes. Hopefully they aren't too basic. Want to learn something myself but mainly going to my pup.

These two clinics are quite a travel from my place so she will defiantly be great in the car!!

[Sonic]

Our class included large and small breeds.

I found that the bullies were lab puppies. At the

end they had to be restrained for the entire class so the others

could play peacefully

I have to agree with this statement as I have taken 3 of my Labs to PPS and they have always ended up being the bully of the class. That is until my last one, a bitch (the others were dogs) realised who had the food and then she would run to each person individually and sit very nicely in front of them until they fed her. Just proves that girls are smarter than boys. The boys always ended up in the "sin bin" for most of the class, as did the bitch until she figured out the whole food scenario.

So I would say the most important thing when planning PPS is to make sure dogs of equivalent size and activity level are placed together. My dogs didn't get much out of being in the sin bin. It certainly didn't teach them to modify their behaviour as they didn't understand why they'd been put in there.

[Cam]

Day 2 Breif

- pass the puppy

- offlead time

- basic training - was drop/down tonight

In between the puppy interactions

- Mainly talked about food tonight. What to feed, how to feed, when to feed (all with a disclaimer saying talk to your vet about best brands, times etc on how to feed)

Class went for just over an hour and the trainer was more than happy to stick around for 20-30 minutes after answering some one-one questions. (even though we are covering the topics next week)

[Vizsla Nut]

PPS was the worst experience for us and puppy...

1ST class he spent cowering under the chair

2nd class when he finally came out of his shell, he didn't want to go back on lead... Offlead at the beginning, then we spent the next 40mins constantly tugging and yelling over our barking pup, the trainer became frustrated and gave up on him.

All he wanted to do was chase the other puppies around, so the only thing we got out of the 2 classes we went to was that he was socialised with other puppies.

Now we just take him to a dog park where he can be offleash and do what he likes....

Yes, it's good for socialising, but don't lecture me on grooming (the same speech every session) and don't let the dogs play and then expect them to sit patiently for the next hour!

[OSoSwift]

I have noticed that some people don't like the fact the puppies don't get to play and others don't like the fact they do get to play? Just goes to show can't keep everyone happy.

[huski]

I have noticed that some people don't like the fact the puppies don't get to play and others don't like the fact they do get to play? Just goes to show can't keep everyone happy.

I prefer puppy school not be a free for all, but would love pups to have breaks where they can play with each other - I went to one extreme with our last puppy school where the pups had to be tied to chairs for the hour plus of class and were not allowed to play with each other at any time. The instructor even put dividers between the pups so they couldn't see each other! It's not what we went to puppy school for. Although this was the same trainer who told us not to say no or ah ah to our pups, and that giving them an ear rub would calm them down when they were being naughty - might work for a quiet, easy going pup but mine was neither of those things!

[OSoSwift]

agreed Huski that is a bit extreme! When Rommi is in hyper mode she wouldn't even notice you were touching her ear, that is if you were quick enough to grab it in the first place!!!

[katbod]

I have noticed that some people don't like the fact the puppies don't get to play and others don't like the fact they do get to play? Just goes to show can't keep everyone happy.

The puppy classes I helped run didn't involve puppies playing together. Maybe it was slightly different as a training class but to me it made sense because on occasions where owners had let their puppies play together they were so intent on continuing to play that they couldn't learn anything. Outside of the class environment playing is fine but it just wound the pups up.

If you want a dog that pays attention to you, you also need to teach it that you're the most exciting thing in the world! It's not impossible to be more exciting than another dog but it takes time to teach a puppy that so we taught people that you can socialise a puppy without letting it play with every dog it meets. Socialisation just involves exposing dogs to things and I think people have become scared that if they don't let their dogs play their dogs will never learn that other dogs are OK. Now I've met behaviourists who are extreme in this and never let their dogs play with other dogs (they believe it teaches dogs to fight, I believe it teaches good bite inhibition!). I take a more moderate view and let my dogs play with dogs I know but don't let them as pups run up to every dog they meet. I think people need to be aware that you can have a well-socialised dog without letting it play with tonnes of dogs, it just has to meet them. Then when they've learned to come when called and that they get to play games and get treats from their owner, they can go play with friendly dogs. Most owners probably won't care if their dog isn't impeccably behaved of course and probably think that it's all a bit extreme not to let puppies romp around together. But you think about it, in the off-lead thread we've been discussing that not all dogs like dogs charging up to them. Dogs need to learn that they can't run up to every dog they meet and when better to start than when they're pups?

[Garden Girl]

Took our dog to PPS at the local vet when he was about 12 weeks old - cost $50 for I think 5 sessions. I thought it was really well run by the 2 vet nurses. The dogs were off leash almost all the time and if one was too much one of the nurses calmed it down and they always had a water spray bottle on hand which they used now and then to separate dogs.

One thing they did which I liked was have us all sit in a group and have a turn holding each puppy. We'd have a minute or so of rubbing tummies and just getting the pups used to being handled before passing them around the the next person. All the dogs seemed to like that as well. They also did a couple of classes with the resident cat - all the pups ignored it except mine who went crazy for a bit before settling down.

We did a littel bit of training (sit and stay) and had a nice graduation at the end.

We are taking our new pup as well more for the socialisation because we already have the info pack and what not.

I liked thats the vets didnt really push a certain brand of product but each week they usually had a sample of something either food or shampoo or whatever and had simple little quizzes for the humans where we won a prize like a chew or a toy (for the dogs).

Edited October 20, 2008 by JME

[katbod]

I liked thats the pets didnt really push a certain brand of product but each week they usually had a sample of something either food or shampoo or whatever and had simple little quizzes for the humans where we won a prize like a chew or a toy (for the dogs).

Glad you said the chews and toys were for the dogs!

[kazg]

I know vet run pps must be safe(healthwise) as they keep running, but am I being paranoid worrying about my pup picking up something like parvo at the vet run pps?

Do vets thoroughly clean before each class, and if they have outdoor grassed areas to run around in, doesn't parvo stay in the ground for years?

Also how can you be sure the other pups in the class haven't come into contact with something(I've run into a few people with their little 6 week old puppies walking them everywhere and anywhere).

I want to make sure my future pup is well socialised, but the more I read, the more paranoid and confused I become. Can anyone please help put my mind at ease?

Sorry if this is off topic.

Edited October 19, 2008 by kazg