raz Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Monash Vet thinks it may not have been a snake bite! However, he has no idea what it could have been. This concerns me as I would like to know what caused his collapse, so I can keep him away from it in the future. Didnt you say they used a venom test kit when he first went in, Delt? How stressful for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltron Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 Monash Vet thinks it may not have been a snake bite! However, he has no idea what it could have been. This concerns me as I would like to know what caused his collapse, so I can keep him away from it in the future. Didnt you say they used a venom test kit when he first went in, Delt? How stressful for you. Yep - they did and the venom kit showed up negative. However, he recovered right after the antivenin was given to him. The Monash vet says there are lots of other 'goodies' like antihistamines in the antivenin which could possibly have made him better too. But the AEC Vets were adamant it would have been a brown snake. I really concerns me that it may not have been a snake. I can keep him away from snakes... but some unidentified insect that lives in grass? That's kind of harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Try not to stress, hon. Wait for tonight's test result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexiam Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Deltron so sorry for you. Hope all is ok. We have had our cat survive a snake bite ( he was nearly dead) . He lived for about another 4 years. Nearly 12 months ago we lost Bandit. She was a Kelpie x Lab who we think had been bitten about 15 mins before we found her, unable to walk and paralysed. She was my dog, but lived out on the farm with my parents. It was a stinking hot day and I put her in the car with the air con on to keep her cool. She had no use of her legs and was limp. I literally flew in to town. She was 12 years old, but very active and fit. Well she survived it with one shot of antivene. Sadly 2 weeks later she was found dead in her kennel. She developed a heart murmur when bitten and when recovered it disappeared. Vet thinks it was probably a heart attack that killed her. It was alot in a old dog. We were so sad, but she DID susrvive the bite. If she had been younger I think it all would've been good for her. The vet told us that normally about half an hour after being bitten they look like they are recovering, then they recrash and are too far gone to save. We were so lucky to have got in at the rigt time. Plus vet had also said that red bellied black snakes do more damage and are worse than a brown snake bite in recovery. Bandit stayed overnight and came home the next morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Plus vet had also said that red bellied black snakes do more damage and are worse than a brown snake bite in recovery. Well now that Delt has said it probably isnt a brown snake envenomation I will just say this - Is your vet serious? Brown snake venom is one of the worst. Change vets and fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexiam Posted October 9, 2008 Share Posted October 9, 2008 Deltron hope that you find out exactly what the bite was from. It must be very frustrating, the not knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltron Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 NOT A SNAKE BITE!!! CKL is NORMAL. The levels would have been sky-high if it was a snake. SO... now we need to find out what he is allergic to. The allergy testing at Melbourne Veterinary Specialist Centre is $700. ARGH! That will take our bill up to $5,200. It's a bit annoying that we were told the wrong thing by the Emergency Centre about the snake. I might call them up and talk to the vet and get thier opinion on why they were wrong. BUT... he is alive and well. So that is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltron Posted October 9, 2008 Author Share Posted October 9, 2008 (edited) Just talked to AEC. They still think it was a snake. Apparently anaphalaxis would not prolong clotting time to the extent that Charlie had (his was over 1000 apparently). They also say that CKL could potentially be normal with a Brown Snake as they don't necessarily break down muscle. The vet I talked to is going to chat to the other Vets, get thier opinions and give me a call back. The vet also said that allergy testing probably isn't going to help much, and it would be best to keep a close eye on him and avoid insects. Edited October 10, 2008 by deltron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I had an incident a few years ago when I was travelling up to NSW. Stopped at a round-side pull-in and gave the dogs a break. I walked them on lead around the area, no long grass, easy to see anything on the ground and as it was fairly warm I was looking carefully. Anyway, got back to the car and Sam (Min Pin) started shaking, then vomiting, then collapsed still shaking. Rushed to a nearby service station and they phoned the nearest Vet and gave me directions. It was about a 10min (fast) drive. Sam was unable to stand and still shaking badly. Vet. suggested snake bite but I was positive that it wasn't that. He gave Sam a couple of injections (forget what they were now) and within the hour Sam was OK, although a bit weak on his legs. The Vet gave me the number and directions to the Vet in the next town but Sam was 100% by the time we got there. There wasn't any visible bite marks from anything so it was a mystery. The only time I've ever had anything like that happen and Sam never showed any ill effects after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Poor little boy, it must feel like a worst nightmare becoming reality Brown Snake venom causes neurological symptoms (weakness, ataxia, respiratory paralysis) and coagulopathy which can result in severe hemorrhage. Renal toxicity is also possible. Happily muscle damage is nearly non existent in brown snake envenomation. Most victims of snake bite need at least 2 vials of snake antivenom early in their treatment as most snakes will deliver more than one lethal dose in a successful envenomation. Prognosis is generally considered good with early treatment and ongoing supportive care. I hope he is starting to feel better now. Thats intersting lucknow. The mother of my girl in the Avitar was bitten last year, do not not know by what. She survived but had major heart damge to grade 4. She was PTS about 4 weeks ago due to the heart disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I suppose you may have to resign yourself to the fact that you may never know exactly what happened Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucknow Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 They also say that CKL could potentially be normal with a Brown Snake as they don't necessarily break down muscle. Brown snake venom does not cause Myolosis, or very little - no muscle break down = Creatnine Kinase levels within normal range. It is also important to remember that the serum half life of CK is only 3.5 hours so Myolosis that has been successfully arrested with anti-venin will not necessarily show in a blood test taken a reasonable amount of time later. While poisnous snakes in Australia all have similiar actions in their venom they are not the exact same (which is why we have different anti-venins depending on the species causing envenomation) and treatment or testing given for one patient will not necessarily be appropriate for another. I hope you get some consistent answers soon. I am guessing/hoping at least Charlie is feeling better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucknow Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Poor little boy, it must feel like a worst nightmare becoming reality Brown Snake venom causes neurological symptoms (weakness, ataxia, respiratory paralysis) and coagulopathy which can result in severe hemorrhage. Renal toxicity is also possible. Happily muscle damage is nearly non existent in brown snake envenomation. Most victims of snake bite need at least 2 vials of snake antivenom early in their treatment as most snakes will deliver more than one lethal dose in a successful envenomation. Prognosis is generally considered good with early treatment and ongoing supportive care. I hope he is starting to feel better now. Thats intersting lucknow. The mother of my girl in the Avitar was bitten last year, do not not know by what. She survived but had major heart damge to grade 4. She was PTS about 4 weeks ago due to the heart disease. Oh that is sad, really amazing the effects of some of the venoms but not something you ever want to see in reality . My condolences on the loss of your girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltron Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Lucknow - very interesting. What you are saying is basically what the AEC told me this morning. At the moment Charlie is probably 80-90% back to his former self. I think he still doesn't feel completely better though. He is being a lot more cuddly than usual, and his appetite isn't completely back. Although... you could say the exact same thing for me right now too. Miranda - you are right. I think all I can do at this point is just keep him away from potential dangers, to the best of my ability. There are about a million buzzy insects in my backyard at the moment though :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaves Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Hope your little one recovers fully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Brown snake venom does not cause Myolosis, or very little - no muscle break down = Creatnine Kinase levels within normal range. Everything we do causes CK levels to change. The good news is that Delt's dog is home and well. If it had been brown snake envenomation the poor little bloke would be dead by now. Pretty frightening thought. Great news, Delt. Post some piccies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltron Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Brown snake venom does not cause Myolosis, or very little - no muscle break down = Creatnine Kinase levels within normal range. Everything we do causes CK levels to change. The good news is that Delt's dog is home and well. If it had been brown snake envenomation the poor little bloke would be dead by now. Pretty frightening thought. Great news, Delt. Post some piccies. No problem. Unfortunately, my mug is in the photo... but it's the only one I have that's recent this is from 3 days ago, after he was released from hospital Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Aww he's grown so much Deltron! I'm glad he is okay for now and fingers crossed for a speedy recovery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltron Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 (edited) Charlie is still faring ok. I definitely think it was a snake. It just fits. My aunt's mini foxie got bitten by a brown years ago, and her experience sounds just like what happened to charlie. Charlie threw up yesterday and today, and has been off his usual food. The vomit had grass in it. He is drinking normally. I fed him some beef mince this morning though, and he ate it, and a few cubes of tasty cheese. I'm keeping an eye on him to make sure he keeps it down. If he doesn't - then it's back to the vets. He is also more distrustful of people at the moment, and barks at pretty much anyone he doesn't know. I'm hoping his upset tummy his due to his antibiotics (metrozine). He will be finished his course in a few days, so fingers crossed he will feel better soon. Edited October 13, 2008 by deltron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 (edited) So glad Charlie is home and seems to be on the mend. I probably would be feeding him cooked chicken breast whilst his tummy still isn't right. Easier for his little tummy to digest then raw stuff and processed cheese. (yes I am a BARF fanatic but in this case Charlie needs spoiling ) You're a great mum not caring how much your little boy cost to save. I am sure he will repay you ten fold with love and devotion. Edited because I can't spell. Edited October 13, 2008 by puggy_puggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now