Aggression When Walking

[violetmay]

My dog Scruffy (maltese, so looks small and cute - came from the pound about 2 months ago, male/desexed) seems to be getting worse not better. I've posted before about his aggression towards other dogs and our dog obedience club problems. Unfortunately, it is getting worse every day. This morning he attacked a a womans two dogs (cavaliers) that he has gotten on with up till now (and was Ok with three days ago). Yesterday my two daughters took him for a walk and he bit a 5 month old puppy on the tail. It's like whenever he sees another dog (or worse still gets a successful attack in) it steps his aggression up another notch.

We've all been on holidays this week, so have taken the dog out more than usual trying to socialise him. It's like the socialisation attempts are backfiring as it's the dog exposure that sets off his aggression. The more dogs he sees, the worse his fear of other dogs becomes.

I just want to know what do when I walk him and he starts acting aggressively to other dogs.

Do I say nothing and only reward positive behaviour? Rewarding positive behaviour when walking doesn't appear to work as he wont accept treats when walking, too stressed and too much on guard.

Do I say "no" in a gruff voice and walk away from the other dogs.

Do I buy a muzzle?

Do I find someone brave enough to help me socialise my dog and have Scruffy build up a friendship with one other dog. Then slowly try and introduce other dogs.

I don't want to stop walking him (I need the exercise too).

Most people where we walk avoid me now (LOL) I've warned them all about the possibility of my dog attacking their dog, so they usually cross the street when they see us coming (it's nice to be popular LOL). I think my daughters thought yesterday that he wouldn't attack a small puppy. I've told them not to let him near any dog now.

I've recently switched from using a collar to a harness, but am going to look for another harness today. I'm finding better control of him with the harness as the one we have keeps slipping off his shoulders and I need to keep stopping to adjust it. It's quicker to get him away from other dogs when he starts barking with the harness than when in a collar.

[sas]

First of all your dog should not be put in the situation where he can attack another dog, you need to keep him well away from other dogs. Your dog biting a puppy could very well contribute to that puppy developing fear aggressive behaviours.....not very fair of you is it.

I don't know how old your daughters are but if they're younger than mid-teens then they shouldn't be put in charge of an aggressive dog.

IMO, you should leave your dog at home or keep well away from other dogs until an Accredited and Qualified Behaviourist can come and access your dog so you know what kind of aggression you're dealing with as the rehabilitation/training is different.

[violetmay]

Thanks for your reply Sas, I agree with you. It is not right that he attacked the puppy, I was quite horrified that my daughters let him get so close to another dog. He had been Ok with small dogs until then and we've only really been avoiding larger dogs (which is most other dogs) ones, so I think that is why they thought it would be OK. My daughters are 10 are 12 and I think you are right, they really aren't getting the seriousness of the situation. The dog is supposed to be the 10 year old's dog (the older girl doesn't really have much to do with the dog, she's more of a cat person) but she just isn't understanding how bad it is.

We are going to try a behaviourist, but unfortunately I need to wait for the university semester to be over (late november), as I there is no way I could cope with trying to implement what a behaviourist is recommending while I have exams and assignments to do. I guess I just need to find ways to cope with the behaviour until we can get professional help.

I've been walking him at 6.00am lately, but as I'm back at uni next week, it will be 5.30am walking, so we rarely see other dogs that early and it's pretty easy to avoid the ones we see. So I think that will be safe to continue walking him at that time.

[Kavik]

I agree with sas. Avoid other dogs on walks until you see a professional . YOUR dog is the problem, so you should be crossing the road, not other dog owners!

I can't remember if you posted your location before, if you post it people can recommend someone to go and see.

[violetmay]

Hmm.. Kavik, maybe I need to walk another route. The route we usually take has got a lot of places where you can't simply cross the street to avoid. We've got pedestrian bridges over creeks/duckponds, wooden walking tracks through mangroves - all of which are really narrow and dogs pass eachother quite close. If I stuck to streets it would be easier to avoid other dogs. All the problems with meeting other dogs happen in these narrow spots. It is no problem avoiding other dogs while on the street.

[Kavik]

I'd stick to streets then, or a route where it is easy to avoid other dogs. Zoe is dog aggressive, and I sometimes pull into driveways so that the other dog can pass at a good distance (and I can work on my focus too, without getting too close).

I know how frustrating and difficult it is, but for now you may have to do less interesting walks to keep everyone safe.

[persephone]

Hi.

When you first posted and it was suggested you got professional help you said

Yes I will to get some professional help re his behavior, but as I am a very stressed/busy university student, there is no way I am going to be mentally able to do that until the semester is over and it is Christmas holidays

Sorry, but IMO, you and you dog need help NOW!!

At the rate this 'aggression' is increasing- and your stress with it- There could well be a disaster happen by Christmas.

You have time to walk the dog- so you have time to consult a professional Honestly- seeing a professional won't INCREASE your levels of brainwork- rather the opposite!

[SammyZ]

My daughters are 10 are 12 and I think you are right, they really aren't getting the seriousness of the situation. The dog is supposed to be the 10 year old's dog (the older girl doesn't really have much to do with the dog, she's more of a cat person) but she just isn't understanding how bad it is.

Your daughter isn't old enough for the dog to be 'hers' especially with the aggression he is showing. I firmly believe that the dog is the parents responsibility and if the child/dog take a shining to each other then great but it is a bonus. And it isn't up to her to understand how bad it is. It is up to you are the parent to always walk the dog with her and supervise him at all times with the issues he is having. He needs to be kept away from other dogs, for their and his sake, for the time being so find alternate routes.

We are going to try a behaviourist, but unfortunately I need to wait for the university semester to be over (late november), as I there is no way I could cope with trying to implement what a behaviourist is recommending while I have exams and assignments to do. I guess I just need to find ways to cope with the behaviour until we can get professional help.

I think you should get the appointment booked in now as it can be one of those things that you put off and off and there is never a perfect time to start these things. Something always seems to come up, study, kids sick etc etc. The best time to get stuck into rehab/training him is now. Just think that once you have the appointment it may well take you the same timeframe as you are doing now with walking the dog to implement their advice/training. Just do it, is my advice.

Good luck,

Bec.

Edited October 3, 2008 by becboo

[persephone]

And it isn't up to her to understand how bad it is. It is up to you are the parent to always walk the dog with her and supervise him at all times with the issues he is having.

I would agree here, too- at 10, she is nowhere near mature enough to cope with these issues competently.

[violetmay]

Ok I think you are all right. I'm sitting here almost in tears as I am so stressed about it all, and I've spent all this week (while I should have been doing assignments) so stressed and trying to figure out what I should do. It is really affecting other aspects of my life at the moment and I need to be able to get back to thinking about my uni stuff without having to constantly worry about the dog and it's aggression.

So I am in Brisbane, Redlands/bayside area. Any reccommendations for behaviorists?

I did see that the RSPCA has a calm dogs class http://www.rspcaqld.org.au/training/calmclasses.htm - does anyone know anything about that?

[SammyZ]

Ok I think you are all right. I'm sitting here almost in tears as I am so stressed about it all, and I've spent all this week (while I should have been doing assignments) so stressed and trying to figure out what I should do. It is really affecting other aspects of my life at the moment and I need to be able to get back to thinking about my uni stuff without having to constantly worry about the dog and it's aggression.

So I am in Brisbane, Redlands/bayside area. Any reccommendations for behaviorists?

I did see that the RSPCA has a calm dogs class http://www.rspcaqld.org.au/training/calmclasses.htm - does anyone know anything about that?

Hugs to you - I would steer clear of RSPCA training classes but that is just MHO from my experience. I think one-on-one will be the way to go with your boy. Fingers crossed someone can come along with a trainer/behaviourist rec for you.

Bec.

[percyk]

feel for you violet may but you will feel better once you hand the problem over for a bit and see what can be done

getting one of those swf from a pound is a noble thing indeed but you dont know what hes been through - poor mite

i know maltese terriers who have never seen a pound yet are dog aggressive and some hate kids too lol

so as little dogs with a fire in their belly they can be right pains to walk

i dont let my kids ever walk our dogs simply because they wouldnt know how to stop a fight- im teachingthem body language and we go up to observe others at the dog parks - we dont go in unless we know all of the dogs or it's empty- a newbie comes in and we are out of there

my kids have never walked the dogs on the streets either - im a paranoid mum and now with the recent spate of attempted kidnappings even my 12yr old son is spooked

you still have time to rehabilitate your dog - not easy when the dog hasnt been with you since puppyhood looking to you as leader

be sure youre comfortable with the behavourist -some are real salesmen and are more interested in prolonging the time as much as possible and have no real interest in results- theyll convince you of every darn problem your dog has even when there may not be one so read up as much as you can on fear aggression and ask lots of questions

ask what methods are to be used

remember you have to be the one who will be correcting/moulding the behaviour so you will have to copy the techniques - everything from your own voice and body stance, the way you walk, to the way you treat the dog inside your home- got to be really assertive and not tense up - hard when youre expecting violence!

in the meantime, perhaps, you could teach the dog to fetch... lots of stuff on the net so google

this is a good game to gain leadership and a good way for children to play with this dog and get it to focus on something

if i had a biter id get a muzzle

use chicken as a bribe to get the muzzle on

you may need to do it a few times so the dog associates good things with the muzzling- at least there wont be a civil suit out against you if theres another incident and it will let other people see the problem immediately ( some may be unkind about you having a biter but you have to strong and ignore these - you saved this dogs life so cheap shots must not affect your goal)

write down all the behaviours the dog exhibits in all different situations - from you opening an umbrella to brushing him out and tick or cross it off

that way the behaviourist has something to go on and not waste time ( like you do when you go to an expenisive specialist)

behaviourists arent cheap - one lady told me she was asked for 175 per session!

( get a decent human counsellor for that price lol)

good luck

chin up

i know plenty of people with BIG dog aggressive dogs and they work their lives around them - itd be much worse if the dog was aggressive to your kids and visitors

Edited October 4, 2008 by percyk

[dee lee]

Violetmay, I understand how stressful an aggressive dog can be- I have one too.

But I think you will find that seeing a behaviourist will actually make your life LESS stress filled.

Excercises they will give you will take no more time out of your day, they will just become part of your routine. The biggest things you will learn will involve teaching your dog that it is the lowest in the pack- and they are things you will need to apply consistently, not as a training "program" as such.

If you are like me you are probably lying awake at night worrying, with some help you may be able to deal with this quickly and your life will get back to normal.

Until you do get to see someone, keep him close to you and dont allow him to even get near a dog. I know the conventional wisdom says that you shouldnt convey tension to your dog by pulling on the lead when you are approaching another dog, but I think this just made my dog feel I was giving her the greenlight to "protect". Lately at the first sign that she is getting tense I pull her into a tight heel on her check chain and she just cannot lunge. Fortunately she has calmed a lot now that she knows I am in charge, not her- and at the very least now I am confident that she will not be able to bite another dog.

Good luck, and get some help!!

[~*Shell*~]

behaviourists arent cheap - one lady told me she was asked for 175 per session!

( get a decent human counsellor for that price lol)

Behavourists are worth it though! 1 session may be all it takes.

My dog was aggressive to the point where he would have fought anything (and he tried to!) - one session with Steve and a couple of months of hard work and Zero's 100% better! He can have another dog lunge at him and he'll just sit there and wag his tail - he even has doggie friends now and our bond has become so much stronger because of the work we've done together. I know how frustrating it can be - but it can get better.

Good luck Violetmay! Bite the bullet and spend the money - you won't regret it!

This is my previously dog aggressive dog (with Terranik's Jedi and Snofyre's Magnus):

Edited October 4, 2008 by ~*Shell*~

[percyk]

behaviourists arent cheap - one lady told me she was asked for 175 per session!

( get a decent human counsellor for that price lol)

Behavourists are worth it though! 1 session may be all it takes.

My dog was aggressive to the point where he would have fought anything (and he tried to!) - one session with Steve and a couple of months of hard work and Zero's 100% better! He can have another dog lunge at him and he'll just sit there and wag his tail - he even has doggie friends now and our bond has become so much stronger because of the work we've done together. I know how frustrating it can be - but it can get better.

Good luck Violetmay! Bite the bullet and spend the money - you won't regret it!

This is my previously dog aggressive dog (with Terranik's Jedi and Snofyre's Magnus):

aww Shell that is such a great result! wow you must be so relieved and grateful

you see these training advert vids and think - is that the same dog or has it been staged..lol

so it's good to hear that sometimes it's only one session!