Some Wierd And Worrying Behaviour From Poppy Tonight

[Sayly]

Mum and Dad were sitting our the front this evening and our neighbour came over for a chat. I came outside and had Poppy with me, and our neighbour is a dog lover (they have two, one is a GSD with some issues that I’ve spoken about before, they do have more control over him these days and he is always on leash now outside the yard). Our neighbour had had a little bit to drink and was just a little silly and tipsy. She was sitting down and called Poppy over to her and patted her, and like Poppy does she put her front paws on her lap, neighbour leant down and kissed her nose, talked to her in both a normal voice and baby/silly voice and Poppy was licking her face and neighbour was fine with it, both Dad and I said ‘ah’ when she went to lick her but neighbour said it was fine and kept talking in baby voice. During this though Poppy growled quietly, she didn’t have her hackles up, didn’t seem worried or bothered at all, seemed to be enjoying the attention so the growl confused me a bit. During all this I had my hand on her hip area lightly as I didn’t have a leash on her. She really didn’t seem worried or upset or aggressive at all, but she growled. It wasn’t a really loud or aggressive growl, it was really similar to the ‘hello’ grumbles she does when we get home, but I’ve never heard her do it to another person before. She was fine after that with our neighbour too, shook hands with her, licked her, got pats and cuddles. Her body language all suggested she was happy but the growl did worry me.

A bit later, I had Poppy sitting on my lap (I was sitting on the ground) and neighbours 17 year old daughter and a male friend of hers came over to tell neighbour that dinner was ready. Neighbours daughter adores dogs too and she sat down next to me and repeated what her mum did earlier, patted and talked to Poppy. Poppy was sitting on my lap with my arm around her chest. Poppy growled again, this time it sounded like a real growl, but again no hackles up and she SEEMED ok, but growling at people isn’t acceptable. I think she may have been growling at the male friend standing behind the girl, that’s where her attention seemed to be.

The only time Poppy has growled at people has been on the street at some males and only when I have been walking her on my own, and the select times she has done that they have been people who worry me like the creepy bogan around the corner, so I just thought she was picking up on my moods/body language.

Usually she’s excited to see and meet people at home and has never done anything like this. She always meets people either inside or in the back yard, this meeting was out the front. Also, the lighting out there is terrible and we don’t think her sight is great, but I don’t think this would have much of an affect on her.

Mum also suggested that they would have smelt strongly of their dogs, and Poppy is DA (growls at other dogs and will snap if they are in her face), so maybe be responding to the smell.

It’s worried me, its not acceptable. I didn’t feel like she was going to bite, but growling is a sign of aggression.

I feel like all I’m doing now is rambling on, so does anyone have any advice for me, or some information on perhaps the cause? Should I be looking at a behavouralist’s help? I have thought about a behavouralist for her DA but we have been working around it and apart from missing DOL meets, it doesn’t really affect us a lot if she is DA so haven’t gone down that track as yet.

She's the first dog who has been mine to train and look after, she means the world to me.

[Tonymc]

Lyndsay, not wierd behaviour at all.Pretty normal dog behaviour in the circumstances.

People alot of the time seem to think Prey drive is only the act of running or grasping a Prey object.Prey drive is more complex and much more multi-dimensional than that.

Dogs are predators and thus have instinctive skill's to assist and ensure their survival.Dogs can only be dogs and can only think,react and respond like dogs, even though in a surburban enviroment where their pack may be made of both dogs and Humans.No matter how many Humans in the dogs pack,the dog brings with him or her, many instincts and ways of behaviour.

Dogs as part of Prey Drive have a highly developed Skill to pick a Prey target that gives them a higher chance of sucess when hunting.This of course is all about survival.A Dog in the Wild will recognise an animal that is ill,old,injured and so forth.How?Because the selection of a prey Animal is usually carried out at a distance, the selection factors are sight and scent.A dog can pick the slightest distortion of movement.For example a sick prey animal will move differently to a healthy one.The dogs picks up on the jerky and abnormal movement of the sick or injured prey animal.

We may have domesticated dogs, but thanfully they have retained their instincts which they bring to the relationship with Humans.

In many ways you have answered your own questions.Your Neighbour for example was intoxicated and therefore acting and moving differently and the dog easily picked up on it.Also it seems by your post that your Neighbour was sticking her head in the dog's face.Many dogs read somebody sticking their head in their face as a threat.

Have your Neighbour come over when she is not drunk and sit near the dog,not sticking her in the dog's and not carrying on with the silly baby talk and take note of the difference in the Dog's behaviour.

The above process of spotting an animal that is different as a prey target, also works as a means of dogs spotting what they may see a potential threat or danger.

The other possible factor of course is leadership.Some dogs given poor leadership will feel they have to take leadership and this of course includes protecting the pack. Tony

[Sayly]

Thanks Tony, I hadn't thought about her picking up the fact she was drunk and not 100% 'healthy'. That makes alot of sense, she, compared to our other dogs, is so much more responsive to emotions and body language than our other two.

As for the leadership, Poppy is the top dog out of our 3 dogs. As a pup she pushed and pushed and pushed for dominance more than any other dog we have had as a family, she took alot of work but I believe she knows her place now. I could be wrong, I'm no expert, as I said, she's the first dog to be my complete responsibility (had dogs my whole life, she's the first to really be mine). She listens and responds to what I ask, she gets off the bed or outside chair when told 'off' and waits until she's told 'ok' before she's allowed on the bed. She stops playing immediately when told 'settle'. She's obedient, happy, non-destructive, just DA due to our lack of socialisation during her puppy hood, and then my poor responses when she socialised later on. :nahnah:

[Kelpie-i]

I would be asking your friends/neighbours not to put their faces too close to your dog's face. This sort of behaviour (on the part of the human) is generally seen as "rude" and invasive to some dogs, especially coming from strangers.

The 2nd growl, being that it occurred whilst Poppy was sitting on your lap, would indicate a leadership issue.

I believe the growls were the result of 2 separate situations.

[Vickie]

I would be asking your friends/neighbours not to put their faces too close to your dog's face. This sort of behaviour (on the part of the human) is generally seen as "rude" and invasive to some dogs, especially coming from strangers.

I totally agree. I don't think it is a weird behaviour at all. Some dogs don't like people, strangers or not, right in their face & why should they? If one human did that to another, there would be a response. We would find it unacceptable. I think most dogs find it unacceptable too. 3 of my dogs would be uncomfortable with this (if you did it to the other, you would get a big wet lick!). Only one of them would grumble, but since all 3 would be uncomfortable with it, I don't allow people to do it to any of them. To me it'd be no different & just as invasive if I let someone sit there & poke my dog.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Vickie

[Scarlet]

It might be acceptable behaviour from the dog's perspective but if it was my dog, and as leader of the pack, I would have removed her from the situation at the sign of the first growl.

I know I don't read dog signs too well but if my dogs growl I take it seriously-the next warning might be a snap or bite.

[Vickie]

I guess it depends on how you look at it. IMO, a far better option, as leader of the pack, would be to prevent the dog having to be in this situation in the first place.

[Jimmay]

If someone puts their face too close to Favoury they'd most likely get bitten (and yes that even includes people in our own family).

I think in your situation its realy a combination of bad lighting, loud noises/drunkeness and strangers invading her personal space.

Edited October 1, 2008 by Jimmay

[Sayly]

Thanks everyone. Obviously I put her in a poor situation, and will be much more wary next time.

I didn't remove her after the first growl as I assumed it was her 'hello' rumble, but after the second I figured both were growls and she was taken back inside then.

The reason I said wierd behavior is because its not something I had seen from her before.

[percyk]

when youre touching your dog on its hip youre reassuring it - like saying thats ok youre doing fine

maybe the fact that your neighbour was letting it lick the face plus you still in contact led it to believe you needed protecting

when the dog was in your lap it growled again

this is common with some dogs - you know the little chihuahua that growls and snaps at a kid trying to pet it whilst the dog is in the ladys arms

i think the dog probably like many of our dogs doesnt quite get that youre the leader and dont need protecting when youre allowing it to sit on you...when you have your arm around it many dogs do tolerate it but it's not something theyalways enjoy so maybe with the extra stimulation of others near you it was overwhelmed ( you know how kids are always warned not to put their arms round a dog...some are ok with it but others will see it as threatening just like having that face- to - face eye to eye position with your tipsy neighbour who probably didnt smell right either to a dog)

so keep socialising it

allow people to practise - hand them treats to give to your dog and praise it for responding appropriately

we did this with our daughters little dog as a pup - took it everywhere and encouraged everyone to come up and pat

it's a great dog - very well balanced with people and all dogs andeven though my daughter sometimes picks its up cos it cant walk as far as our others. it will happily be carried by others

Edited October 3, 2008 by percyk