What To Do Next? Where To Go From Here?

[leopuppy04]

Tonight we did stays in the driveway (you've been here, you know how dangerous that could be) and I made him LOOK at me the whole time he was in his stay. I threw food around and made him focus on me......he kept looking around but he didn't move. I want him to NOT look around, I want him to look at me the whole time cos it's when he is looking around that he forgets he's supposed to be sitting there.

Remember also - if you want to continue past CD - he needs to be able to hold an out of sight stay - so complete focus on you may make his stays fall apart in Open and above. Just make sure you go in and reward often for maintaining position and make sure you reward BIG time.

I would also practice the sit and down stays in a separate session (if you need to practice downs... most of us don't do that very often!)

Also his attention wanders sometimes in the heeling. He can be good for a few turns, then his nose will hit the ground and he doesn't keep up with me.

OK - it could be a part age thing. but how about break it up a bit for him - this week - practice turns on the spot, and practice some circle heelwork (like we did at Sale) rewarding the correct position and trying to encourage him to find that position, either on the spot or while you are moving .

Practice the focus as a separate exercise - look at all the biccies you get just for watching me !

He is great in the stand for examination and usually good in the recall, although he could rocket in a bit faster than his usual leisurely amble.

He's toy mad right? So how about throwing a toy between your legs for him to get - or the two food game - throw food one way and then the other. for about 1 in 10 throws, turn into him and get him to present - you will get a rocket recall and (usually) a good present too... if he has been taught a nice, neat present.

Remember - this week - make it all fun... I know the trial is looming, but keep it all up beat and fun - make sure he knows that obedience is a game.... just because the trial is coming up doesn't mean he has to do a full session every night for the next week or so - he can do small stints of each exercise and help tune up those finite details

Edited September 29, 2008 by leopuppy04

[JulesP]

I think your instructor probably freaked out because you aren't in the highest class yet. Clubs tend to freak if you don't go through their whole program.

Doesn't mean to say that you aren't ready, just providing some insight on why the instructor might have freaked.

[Gayle.]

OK - it could be a part age thing. but how about break it up a bit for him - this week - practice turns on the spot, and practice some circle heelwork

Ok, I'm on the right track then cos we're just doing turns.....right about turns, left and right turns.....heel, heel, heel, lots of praise for being there.

Tonight we finished off with a couple of stays, then called it quits when he didn't break. We came inside, he got loads of praise on the way in and a pigs ear for being a good boy.

Tomorrow night we'll continue like that. Thanks for the help!

[dogdude]

I wonder what made me think they might teach obedience trialling? I have a well-behaved dog, I am in class 2. There are at least 3 more classes above me, plus UD class and above that.

I would say that very few clubs if any actually teach trialling formally. Most will just have rings set up to do run throughs for a little critique and informal help.

There is a simple reason for this. Most people in the know are out trialling on club days, and besides that, it would not make sense that every club member is taught by one person, otherwise, everyone at the club would be getting the same scores each week, due to one persons input.

Trialling is really the beggining of a knowledge quest.....one that is almost never satisfied. You could never learn this from just a few people.

[Silvawilow]

Shoey - who votes for SW playing 'naked' games... at her present state THAT would be interesting (or scary?!) ;) I can't believe Laffi suggested it :)

LP. Actually you know what, you're just jealous that I could hide a small army of toys under my rather overly ample chest - naked games, bring em on ;)

But this IS part of CCD exercises! Don't corner yourself into thinking 'but I only need to teach heeling for CCD'... if you back yourself into that corner (as many do) you will struggle to get GOOD heeling to get you through open and UD.... It is much easier to teach a green dog UD heeling, than it is to teach a dog with 4yrs experience of BAD heeling, to then perform this awesome heelwork.

Absolutly agree, good heeling from the begining is a MUST. Denny, IMO, can heel to Open standard and is the best of my trio. The reasons for this is

a) I've already screwed up with Kiz

b) I don't accept anything but perfect (as can be) and therefore will not venture into the ring until I am confident of not only passing but winning the ring. I'm quiet happy if we lose a point on heel & recall but anything else really means, again IMO, that we will have quiet a few difficulties when we enter the next level.

Because of being taught, perhaps not the most progressive way and not being told that almost is not good enough, I have had to pull Kira from the obedience ring becuase she is not consistant with her heeling and I have to retrain her - I believe she's a product of only training for Encouragement (CCD) ring.

I understand your frustration about your club - unfortunately where you are situated, you are not blessed with the number of clubs we have here in 'town'... We aren't ditching your club, I think they do an excellent job, but it certainly is a lot harder to get a good grip of 'trialling level' dogs without that one on one instruction or further research. Having said that - I'm more than happy to catch up with you again and offer some assistance

Take LP up on her offer, I would

[leopuppy04]

lol awww C'mon SW - it would be quite a spectacle... you have to admit that

I guess the other angle with the heeling thing is that - your dog can heel fabulous in training, but heeling to that level takes a lot of training to get it reciprocated in the ring. The dog has to really understand it's job, and be confident and able to deal with the distractiing environment of a trial . Keep in mind - it could be something as minor as having a judge stand in the ring with you - or... if you do group classes, being on their own and not the distraction of the other dogs heeling around them (yes, sometimes more 'noise' can be less distracting than no 'noise'.... think of hearing a pin drop in an empty cell, compared to in a place with 20 screaming kids)

LOL - thanks for the vote of confidence SW

[Natsu chan]

I wouldn't worry too much about it really. You're entered so go and enjoy yourself, it'll be eye opening.

There's a lot of people here helping you who have titled dogs. Listen to them they know what they're talking about. Myself my girl and I are stuck at CCD probably forever as while she enjoys it, she's carrying an injury that makes it physically challenging for her. We are not competitive but we have fun. If you want to do well the details count.

The perfect heel work is when a dog floats along in the heel position, even or perhaps especially if you were to suddenly start doing the foxtrot. All distractions, all turns, all everything should only enforce the dogs desire to be in the heel position. Should your pants fall down during fast work, and you need to shuffle along while kicking them off you dog should stay in the heel position (though I don't think a raising of the canine eyebrows in that situation could be penalised though frankly the judge would probably be rolling on the grass with the steward at that point). Turns should be smooth and tight, you're a team but heeling in perfection should be almost be as you're both one entity. Sits should be quick and straight, as if Benson has a magnet in his rear, drops the same, stands too. It all sounds so easy, but it requires a lot of training. You can do it if it's what you want to do, but don't get disheartened. Trialling is a learning curve like most things.

Benson is your first dog yes? Well, things will go wrong as you're both learning but have a vision in your mind of what you're aiming for and train with it in your mind. It won't always work, you'll have set backs, complications, stuff ups but don't be disheartened get in there and keep trying.

And if you see a short weird female at a trial with long hair and a collie who can't decide if she's a tri colour or a blue merle, that'll be me feel free to shuffle up and say hello.

[dogdude]

Also his attention wanders sometimes in the heeling. He can be good for a few turns, then his nose will hit the ground and he doesn't keep up with me.

Train focus without the turns, then when training turns, (no, not heel patterns) demand it.

The best way to teach focus and heel postition IMO is to heel in large circles, both clockwise and anti-clockwise. I picked this up at a Gina O'Keefe seminar.

Dont worry the dog with turns. Concentrate only on holding focus (watch!) and keeping position (heel!) Give the dog constant feedback with marking good work, and encouragement (goooood!)

Think about where you want to direct focus (which part of you and why).

The focal point needs to be one which gives the dog the earliest cue possible for turns etc.

I demand focus above my shoulders, because I cue my dog for turns by looking at the direction that I am about to turn, a split second before I actually turn. This way, the dog is turning almost before I do.

You can teach this by first demanding focus to your eyes, but then you need to teach an unconnected focus, using your peripheral vision, while you are looking straight ahead (as in a trial). Sometimes a spotter helps to teach it too.

[leopuppy04]

Gayle - certainly don't get disheartened through this thread - we want to see you out and about and Benson certainly has the potential to go above and beyond CCD

Keep at it and remember to have fun at Knox

A

[Cosmolo]

Just one question Gayle- why do you want to trial? Is your aim to have fun and progress or also to gain titles on your dog?

[Gayle.]

Just one question Gayle- why do you want to trial?

Good question. I discovered I really enjoy obedience, I really like that connection I have with my dog and I love teaching him new things. I am probably not as dedicated or obsessed as I might become, but I do like it. I like going to obdience classes, but for me, they have to be a means to an end.

He is past the point of needing to learn "basic" good manners.

He is a lovely boy that I can take anywhere and know with confidence that he will behave himself and act like a "gentleman".

So the original reason for me going to obedience has "expired". Now I want another reason to motivate me to go, and that is trialling.

Does that make sense? I'm not a person just to do something for the sake of doing it, there has to be a reason to do it.

[weisnjac]

Gayle,

We have meetings once a month, come along and tell people what you are unhappy with. We are here to try and help you. The dates are in the magazine for every to see it is clearly states 'all welcome'.

The ring is set up every week but we don't know you want to be put through unless you come and ask. Mum & Eddie are there almost every week to put people through. We don't have someone standing out there waiting all day in case someone wants to be put through, but if you ask, there will most likely be someone who will be more than happy to do so. We have called out in the mornings that the ring is there and an instructor is available if you wish to leave class and be put through.

We have training night's on Wednesday nights for people trialing, see someone in the office about this. I'm very surprised with all the people you have asked that you haven't found this out already. We have a ring set up and everyone is put through individually with group exercises at the end.

I am assuming it was John you are talking about who fobbed you off. This is not like him at all, you must have caught him on a really bad day. He is usually the one who runs the Wednesday night training sessions and he is currently Overseas, this is what he may have been talking about.

Mum (Gail with the Wei) will still be going down if you are after extra help. See her on Saturday morning.

[Gayle.]

Hi Nikki, it's not that I'm unhappy with anything, I love going to the club and the classes. Eddie was fantastic on Saturday morning, he gave me some hints and tips, but I honestly thought that the reason we were in the various classes was to learn obedience for trials.

I heard about the Wednesday classes but twice when I asked about them I was told they weren't held any more so after the second time I didn't pursue it.

It just came as a complete surprise to me that we don't go to the regular Saturday classes to learn about trialling and I had absolutely no idea how I was supposed to learn when all I got told was "You're nowhere near ready".

And it's really thrown me for a loop that Saturdays are not what I thought I was there for, and I honestly didn't know what to do.

[Staff'n'Toller]

LP does your club hold rally-O much?

I guess that's another option, come down for a few weekends if you can find a club doing rally. It's not exactly the same but at least you can praise him and it puts some interesting exercises into an otherwise stock-standard sort of ring routine.

Mel.

Edited September 30, 2008 by Staff'n'Toller

[weisnjac]

Who did you ask about Wednesday? They run just about all year round??

We are a country obedience club. Our aim is to teach people basic obedience, you move through the classes and if you are interested in trialling you can continue onto more ring work with experienced trialers. This is why we have the ring set up.

Most people use Saturday mornings as a social outlet and to socialize their dogs. Most would have no inclination to start trialing. Most never do.

I would suggest you ask who is around to put people through the ring in the morning. Go into class for a bit of work, then leave and get put through the ring. Or, go through the ring in the morning and join back in class for the group exercises.

Come down tomorrow night if you can, about 4-4.30pm. Danni is more than welcome too.

[Gayle.]

Ros told me to ask John, so I did and he said they don't have classes on Wednesday evenings. Then she asked him again the week before last when I told her that I'd entered the trial, and he said again, there weren't classes on Wednesday nights.

I thought the ring was set up to advance people from one class to another....cos that's the only thing I've ever seen it used for, plus group stays for the higher classes.

There seem to be quite a few people there who enter trials and I've spoken to some of them, but I just thought they were doing the Saturday classes and that's how they were learning to do the trial stuff, as well as the grad days. I realise most people never enter an obedience trial, but the instructors always talk about when you enter a trial, so I just thought that's where everyone learned, as well as practise at home. I don't think I was an idiot for thinking that because opn thinking back, there was no reason to assume otherwise.

I have a new job, I work now til 5.30pm so maybe once daylight saving starts next weekend, I can do the Wednesday classes if they're still there after 6pm. That would be great, I will see if I can talk to someone else on Saturday now I have a better idea.

[weisnjac]

I never said you were an idiot Gayle.

The ring is used for training, we don't put people up classes every week.

[Gayle.]

I never said you were an idiot Gayle

Oh no, I never meant you said that. I've been calling myself an idiot for assuming what I did, but I think I just had the wrong end of the stick altogether. No matter, I'll sort something out now I know who to ask.

[Dee_al]

.

Dont worry, I know what you mean. Their is only 4 people I have had help me with trialing stuff, but thankfully they really were helpfull

Benson has improved alot with hes focus on you lately. I dont have to work on Kanes focus on me, becasue anyone that has met Kane knows he spends he's whole time watching me. If i knoew how I had gotten that I would tell you but I have no idea. Thats just how he's always been. I think that how your getting Bensons attention works though so keep going.

Did you get Roz to put you through the ring after class today? I left early so didnt see. She put me through before class today. Yeah that wasnt so great. Kane just refussed to drop. Little butthead. and yet when i went to class he dropped. hmm go figure.

Dont worry. you and I will both make fools of ourselves together.lol. Only kidding.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Dee_al