What To Do Next? Where To Go From Here?

[The Spotted Devil]

I'd be up for a training day - maybe something to keep us out of mischief until FOO starts???

Who has time for mischief! Are you still doing your cat thingy?! we could organise something easily if you are

Cat thingy! *snort* If you mean my data collection ( ), nup - I'm all finished....writing up my minor thesis now so working from home mostly.

[leopuppy04]

I'd be up for a training day - maybe something to keep us out of mischief until FOO starts???

Who has time for mischief! Are you still doing your cat thingy?! we could organise something easily if you are

Cat thingy! *snort* If you mean my data collection ( ), nup - I'm all finished....writing up my minor thesis now so working from home mostly.

So I had a brain fart moment and couldn't think of the word "thesis" or "study"!!!

It was milling about my head... and all I could come up with was 'oh you know - that stuff you were doing with all the kitties!" ;)

Darn - I could have met up with you one lunch time ;)

[The Spotted Devil]

I'd be up for a training day - maybe something to keep us out of mischief until FOO starts???

Who has time for mischief! Are you still doing your cat thingy?! we could organise something easily if you are ;)

Cat thingy! *snort* If you mean my data collection ( ), nup - I'm all finished....writing up my minor thesis now so working from home mostly.

So I had a brain fart moment and couldn't think of the word "thesis" or "study"!!!

It was milling about my head... and all I could come up with was 'oh you know - that stuff you were doing with all the kitties!" ;)

Darn - I could have met up with you one lunch time

Trust me, I've got a LOT more time on my hands since I've finished! I wasn't actually taking lunch breaks - 7 days a week, 8am-5pm for 7 weeks.....no wonder Zig's training has gone to poo

[laffi]

GayleK, can you get someone to take some video footage of you two working? If you could post that on here/You Tube I'm sure the experienced triallers would be happy to give you a critique

I think it's a great idea. I bet you will get a lot of comments! Probably more than you want

[Silvawilow]

She doesn't want me to enter and said straight out that unless we are completely ready and rock solid, we shouldn't enter because it will do more harm than good.

I rather like the idea of just using the trial as practise and putting no pressure on either of us to perform. We'll just get used to being in the ring and being comfortable with the exercises.

I agree with this to a point. I find nothing more frustrating than for example when someone's who's not ready to trial enters and their dog is all over the shop and then they don't scratch from stays (which they usually tell you outside before going in that their dog ALWAYS breaks). I proof my dogs agains this but it still drives me crazy when dogs stand over them/jump on them/etc in lower level stays. Another thing with doing more harm than good is you can't correct your dog in the ring or praise it.

I feel your pain regarding trial training being 2 hours from the nearest club that does trial training. My suggestion would be to attend some obedience seminars when they come. A lot of clubs host some great trainers from all over the country! Or if you're really motivated organise a seminar on behalf of your club - that's what I'm in the process of doing!

[shoemonster]

I figured I might as well just do it and get the first one over and done with and it didnt turn out nearly as bad as I thought it was going to

AHEM - didn't you get a pass first time, first go with BOTH of your dogs You had it made! Too easy!!!

Howz that Novice coming along?

no! Ed got his first 2 passes on his first 2 trialsand a place both days (even with a slowdown in his recall to pick up a piece of duck poo on the way), but Molls blew a potential 98 in her first trial by sitting there with that stupid look on herface saying "come? i dont seem to remember what that means?" then that arvo she decided she hadnt ever learnt the auto sit and she would just stand instead! Luckily the next morn she redeemed herself with a 2nd place and pass (this was the southern quadruple trial, for their 50th

I'd be up for a training day though, and foo starts in a few weeks too

Trying to decide if I will enter novice with Molls in Nov

[shoemonster]

Oh Bernie (Wilkinson, trial judge) is doing another talk at southern in a few weeks to, I think on a Tues night (7th oct pretty sure)

[Gayle.]

I would love a DOL training day.

I find nothing more frustrating than for example when someone's who's not ready to trial enters and their dog is all over the shop and then they don't scratch from stays

If I'm not confident Benson won't break a stay, I'll withdraw him. If he's not sitting on a pass by the end of the ring work, I'll also withdraw him from the stays.

Our club has a ring set up some weeks but not others. If I see it set up before training and no one is using it, I'll often take Benson in and do some heelwork with him just to get him used to the idea of working within a roped off area.

I am probably way off the mark but although there are plenty of people at the club who enter obedience trials, there really doesn't seem to be a lot of practical help to get a newbie started.

But maybe there is and I just don't know about it yet.

[laffi]

I am probably way off the mark but although there are plenty of people at the club who enter obedience trials, there really doesn't seem to be a lot of practical help to get a newbie started.

But maybe there is and I just don't know about it yet.

I think in order to find out the info you first need to decide what you want to work on.

Is it how to teach a particular thing (for example heel position or attention or front)?

Is it how to proof the behavior during distractions?

I think a few questions you can ask yourself:

- does your dog know how to pay 100% attention to you (on the field without the leash) without you having to lure him or drag him on a leash

- can you play naked games with your dog so he can stay connected to you even if the usual reinforces (toys, food) are not coming?

- does your dog know for example how to find heel position from different spots (in front of you, behind you, while you move etc)

- did you teach each of the exercises in little steps ("dissected it" as LP said), so that if the dogs makes one mistake he can still correct it rather than the whole behavior falling apart

- did you proof all the behaviours in a very distracting situations (like toys falling from the sky )

You have a limited time till your trial. Obviously you are not going to teach him or re-teach him anything new, but you can learn better how to teach it better or proof it better for the next time. Figure out first what your weak spots are, since these you can improve fast. Figure out what Benson's weaknesses are and start addressing them one at the time.

When your trainer said that he is not ready, was she specific? Did she mean that he doesn't know well enough some of the exercises or maybe he is not focused enough?

I do hope that by now you understand that most of obedience clubs do not teach competitive obedience. They teach average Joe how to have a well behaved dog. In order to really enjoy and be successful at trailing you will have to read heaps about it, watch the training DVDs, find people to talk about how to teach every little step (and by that I don't mean SFE or figure 8), I mean every little thing that the dog has to do during these exercises.

[shoemonster]

can you play naked games with your dog

Im pretty sure I would get kicked out if I did that

Sorry!!!

it is hard to get started, and I thank FOO or I would never have been able to gain the confidence to enter my first one

[laffi]

can you play naked games with your dog

Im pretty sure I would get kicked out if I did that

I meant games without toys or food

[Gayle.]

- does your dog know how to pay 100% attention to you (on the field without the leash) without you having to lure him or drag him on a leash

- can you play naked games with your dog so he can stay connected to you even if the usual reinforces (toys, food) are not coming?

This is what I've been working on the last week or so, now that I have a direction and it's definitely working.

does your dog know for example how to find heel position from different spots (in front of you, behind you, while you move etc)

Yep, I can call him to heel from across a footy oval, or from the other end of the house and he'll come and sit by my left side. When walking with him and I tell him to heel, he immediately adjusts so that he's there at the right position.

- did you teach each of the exercises in little steps ("dissected it" as LP said), so that if the dogs makes one mistake he can still correct it rather than the whole behavior falling apart

At this stage I am trying to teach CCD exercises which is just basic obedience. I am absolutely looking no further than heel on leash, sit on halt, drop, stand on command, stand for examination, recall off leash and one minute sit stay and two minute drop stays.

I am absolutely not going any further or making it more stressful than I have to at this point.

When your trainer said that he is not ready, was she specific? Did she mean that he doesn't know well enough some of the exercises or maybe he is not focused enough?

No, she wasn't specific.

I do hope that by now you understand that most of obedience clubs do not teach competitive obedience.

The instructor I have is a national obedience judge. If you've competed in obedience in Victoria, you've more than likely been judged by her. I honestly thought the club I went to was a club that taught obedience trialling. They preach it every week....."when you start trialling.....in a trial you need to do this.....if you were doing that in a trial....etc.etc."

They run their graduation days as if they were a trial. They hold two obedience trials a year.

I wonder what made me think they might teach obedience trialling? I have a well-behaved dog, I am in class 2. There are at least 3 more classes above me, plus UD class and above that.

I would rather learn in a group situation.....I like reading but do better with hands-on exercises and feedback. I truly and honestly thought that's why I was going to an obedience club.....so I could get past the "well-behaved dog" stage, past the party tricks and actually learn how to compete in trials.

When I stewarded at an obedience trial (in the CCD ring) earlier this year, the judge was most interested in which clubs the competitors belonged to, especially the ones who were doing well. I don't think there are any other ones around here that as better than the one I already go to.

[shoemonster]

can you play naked games with your dog

Im pretty sure I would get kicked out if I did that

I meant games without toys or food

If your naked where do you hide the toys and food?

:) :rofl:

[Guest Tess32]

I am behind where you are but also finding it hard to know where to start. Noah is great at home, but I know he'd do nothing at all outside of my house, but then people say an obedience club is useless!

It's really confusing...

[The Spotted Devil]

I am behind where you are but also finding it hard to know where to start. Noah is great at home, but I know he'd do nothing at all outside of my house, but then people say an obedience club is useless!

It's really confusing...

Come join us for a day, Tess I want Noah cuddles, damn it!!!!

[laffi]

can you play naked games with your dog

Im pretty sure I would get kicked out if I did that

:) I meant games without toys or food

If your naked where do you hide the toys and food?

:rofl:

:rofl: :rofl:

ETA GayleK I read your last post. It seems to me like you think it's enough to train in your obedience club to trial. It could be true. It also seems to me like you think you are ready because you are not willing to ask yourself if there is anything you should improve. Maybe there isn't anything and you are ready. I can't know that. So I just wish you all the best with your trial and I hope you will show your instructor she was wrong.

Edited September 29, 2008 by laffi

[leopuppy04]

Laffi -I've decided you and I talk too much

Shoey - who votes for SW playing 'naked' games... at her present state THAT would be interesting (or scary?!) :cheer: I can't believe Laffi suggested it :)

- did you teach each of the exercises in little steps ("dissected it" as LP said), so that if the dogs makes one mistake he can still correct it rather than the whole behavior falling apart

At this stage I am trying to teach CCD exercises which is just basic obedience. I am absolutely looking no further than heel on leash, sit on halt, drop, stand on command, stand for examination, recall off leash and one minute sit stay and two minute drop stays.

I am absolutely not going any further or making it more stressful than I have to at this point.

But this IS part of CCD exercises! Don't corner yourself into thinking 'but I only need to teach heeling for CCD'... if you back yourself into that corner (as many do) you will struggle to get GOOD heeling to get you through open and UD.... It is much easier to teach a green dog UD heeling, than it is to teach a dog with 4yrs experience of BAD heeling, to then perform this awesome heelwork. Benson has the potential - let me tell you . So certainly don't train just for CCD.

Not to mention - more specifically in this case... being the type of dog Benson is, he can and most likely will lose position at some point (especially being his first trial)... you want him to be able to go 'oh what's that over... oopsie... right back into position then'.... you see time and time again, dogs that lose position, and simply CAN'T find it again... and no this isn't just secluded to green dogs either. To me, heeling is about teaching them exactly where heel is as well as the other components of the exercise . You should be achieving heeling where the leash is a pain and only gets in the way

I understand your frustration about your club - unfortunately where you are situated, you are not blessed with the number of clubs we have here in 'town'... We aren't ditching your club, I think they do an excellent job, but it certainly is a lot harder to get a good grip of 'trialling level' dogs without that one on one instruction or further research. Having said that - I'm more than happy to catch up with you again and offer some assistance

**trots off to check the next DOL training day** :smurf:

[Gayle.]

GayleK I read your last post. It seems to me like you think it's enough to train in your obedience club to trial. It could be true. It also seems to me like you think you are ready because you are not willing to ask yourself if there is anything you should improve.

It's not that I think it's enough to train at the obedience club....it's just that I honestly thought that's what you did, that's where you went, and that's how you trained for a trial. We practise what we've learned at the club every day at home, but unless I *KNOW* what I have to improve for a trial, then I won't know what to practice.

I am not saying I am ready, I am saying I thought I was ready but now I don't know but I don't know how to find out because the place I thought I was going to learn, isn't teaching what I thought I was learning. Follow me? Probably not but I know what I mean.

Just imagine this....forget the dog training, pretend you're learning to drive. You go to a driving instructor, you take lessons. Then one day, after lots of lessons where you've driven around the town with an instructor by your side, and having practised everything your instructor has told you, you announce you're confident enough to take the license test.

But your instructor looks at you in complete horror and humiliates you by laughing at your lack of skills and is absolutely amazed that you actually think you can pass your license test.

What have you been learning? What else do you need to know? How can you learn those skills now that you know you don't have them? Your instructor hasn't told you, she's simply pointed out that you won't pass.

Who then, do you ask to help you pass? What else do you need to do to learn?

[leopuppy04]

Hmm.. yes I do understand your predicament Gayle -honest I do . Not only are you downhearted but you don't know where to turn...

So - lets see if we can help here... what are you most concerned about with Benson's work - is there anything in particular that you think "This is the most likely thing that will let us down?!"

[Gayle.]

So - lets see if we can help here... what are you most concerned about with Benson's work

His level of concetration....his absolute focus on me. He is getting better though.

Tonight we did stays in the driveway (you've been here, you know how dangerous that could be) and I made him LOOK at me the whole time he was in his stay. I threw food around and made him focus on me......he kept looking around but he didn't move. I want him to NOT look around, I want him to look at me the whole time cos it's when he is looking around that he forgets he's supposed to be sitting there.

Also his attention wanders sometimes in the heeling. He can be good for a few turns, then his nose will hit the ground and he doesn't keep up with me.

He is great in the stand for examination and usually good in the recall, although he could rocket in a bit faster than his usual leisurely amble.