Gayle. Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I have entered Benson in our first obedience trial on Oct 12, two weeks from today. When I sent the entries in, I thought he was ready, now I'm starting to doubt it. I had decided earlier this year I wanted to start trialling, I enjoy obedience and love going along to the obedience club each Saturday for classes. But I'm at a point where there has to be a means to an end.......there doesn't seem to be much point going along to classes if we're not going to "do" anything with the skills. Benson is already a very easy dog to live with and has the basic obedience down pat. Hence the decision to start trialling. I asked my instructor for some pointers, she told me to go see some bloke at the club and ask him for some help. I did, and he just hummed and hawed and hummed and hawed, then said he was going away for holidays and couldn't help. He wasn't very forthcoming with any more info or direction, so I just left it as he clearly didn't have the time or the inclination. So I just kept attending classes, practising at home, reading the rule book over and over and thinking we were almost there. I told my instructor last week that I'd entered a trial and she was absolutely horrified. But said she'd be at the club earlier than usual to put me through my paces in the ring, in a mock trial situation. We did our agility class first, then met up with her and another instructor for our go in the ring. From the outset Benson was distracted and edgy. And I got nervous and we did absolutely everything wrong, he jumped out of the ring to go and greet all the dogs that were arriving for class, he ran past me in the recall, which he's never done before and he seemed to just completely forget how to heel. I did get a few pointers, but was told quite bluntly that we aren't ready to trial. But I feel he's so much better than that and that we CAN do it. But where do I go from here? Any suggestions for books that might help us prepare? Or websites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natsu chan Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Nerves that's what does it. A lot of the herding breeds are very sensitive and will get distracted and edgy if you are nervous. You live a fair way out from KCC don't you? Other wise I'd suggest going to FOO's run throughs even if it's just to take him and look around. Those ring ropes shouldn't make any difference and to a dog if they've done practice runs it shouldn't but to us it's like a trigger. It's interesting our first trial I was almost gaily happy and even though the weather was foul and even though my girl was very sore (which I wasn't aware of at the time) we did quite well, NQed but almost everyone did the ring was nothing but slippery deep mud. I was quite happy but the next time I was expecting better got all worked up and things went wrong. Take him to a few trials don't necessarily enter just go watch, train and calm your mind down. When you do trial don't expect anything and just try and stay calm. I can't be sure it's nerves but if Benson is normally good then it must be something he's picking up on that's making him anxious, if he's worried about the ring ropes then set some up in the back yard and train inside them. Some people insist that you have to go in with the intention of getting a qualify score which is all well and good but if you're a nervy person or your dog is it creates problems. Qualifying scores are lovely and that's what we all aim for but think of trialling as a fun day out for you and Benson. Stay calm and happy, the qualifying scores will come as a matter of course then and you'll both enjoy yourself regardless. That's just mho off course. Others more experienced will probably have some better ideas. Don't worry too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 I found this thread very informative: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=146988 Have you been to any obedience trials? I think there is a big difference in weekly obedience school training for average Joe and obedience training for competitions. For competition you need to work on each aspects of the exercises separately: attention and focus heeling: position, turns, your footwork, (etc etc) (all the obedience exercises broken down into little pieces) distractions .... I think dogdude recommends finding someone who trials and try to train with them; which I think is a great suggestion. I also recommend taping some of your practice exercises (as often as you can) so you can see what you need to work on. Btw I am not competing in obedience (only in agility), but I am planning on competing in obedience. I am not going to join any clubs until my girls are ready for mock trials. I will only use the club as a distraction training and training with people who trial already. I don't think 30 min of heeling during classes has anything to do with 5min competitive heeling with total focus and attention; so I am not going to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share Posted September 28, 2008 Our club graduation days, held every 3 months, are held exactly as a trial and Benson does well in them. I have been to trials and taken him along too, and stewarded at a couple of trials a few months ago so I could get a close up view of the ring work required. It was the stewarding that pushed me into it because I thought he was clearly better than about half the dogs entered, but after yesterday I'd say we have a long way to go. We practised last night and he was excellent, but got distracted when a cat ran past, so I need to proof distractions. I am not normally a nervous person but I was yesterday and I think maybe it's because I knew my instructor had very little faith that we could pull it off and that transferred into me handling poorly and dithering around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 I'm no expert but perhaps you could look at Knox as your 'practice trial' and try not to place too much pressure on yourself. I gather you'll get heaps of advice from the people at the trial and maybe even the judge if u get the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitka Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Just go for the experience, treat it as a training session, talk to the judge and some trailers. If you can go to a few trials it will hopefully make you and Beson feel more relaxed about trial situations. Best of luck and remember to have fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 (edited) The lack of faith from the instructor wouldnt have helped you at all, Both times I entered the first trial for my dogs I felt they were ready, and in the few weeks in between the worked like absolute crap, making me doubt myself and my decision I figured I might as well just do it and get the first one over and done with and it didnt turn out nearly as bad as I thought it was going to And remember you can always scratch on the day if you decide you really dont want to go in Edited September 28, 2008 by shoemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Use your instructor's lack of faith as determination to do better - so when you see her next week (if it's who I think she is, she'll be happy to help!) say to her 'ok - so we're not ready - what can I do to GET him ready' and practice. The absolute BEST thing that we have at our club, which I found few other clubs have is a ring set up... week in and week out. We have very experienced triallers take us through the paces and nit pick everything (and I mean *everything*)... sometimes you walk out and think 'what on earth am I doing this for' and other times you walk out and think that you might have a shot Don't get disheartened... if it was anything like Leo's first stint in our practice ring, it left a lot to be desired. See Knox (as others have said) as a training ground - if it goes pear shaped, rather than get tense, use it as a training field as you want the experience to be fun for Benson. I learnt *that* from personal experience. It's one of the hardest things to do - but you almost need the attitude of ''oops you made a mistake... how CLEVER are you!"... That way the dog sees the ring as a good place to be and nothing else... then you take away what you have learnt and practice Just remember... every dog has it's day, and most days it's usually not their day! They have a million ways of stuffing up and gee... they certainly take pride in being as creative as possible, at the times when you would probably rather they didn't! Work on a routine over the next few weeks - try and work out with Mr Benson what switches him in to work mode- does it help if you take him straight out of the car for work, or does a warm up first help? Or is a good game of tug outside the ring really get him switched in? You'll have plenty of people to help you on the day - just remember to breathe (oh - and please remind me too!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 I figured I might as well just do it and get the first one over and done with and it didnt turn out nearly as bad as I thought it was going to AHEM - didn't you get a pass first time, first go with BOTH of your dogs You had it made! Too easy!!! Howz that Novice coming along? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share Posted September 28, 2008 (if it's who I think she is, she'll be happy to help!) Yes, it's who you think it is, and I'm not sure I understand her idea of being helpful. It's basically to tell me to get together with a group of other dog people and practise. Well, I thought that's why we had obedience classes on Saturdays. She doesn't want me to enter and said straight out that unless we are completely ready and rock solid, we shouldn't enter because it will do more harm than good. I rather like the idea of just using the trial as practise and putting no pressure on either of us to perform. We'll just get used to being in the ring and being comfortable with the exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 Yes, it's who you think it is, and I'm not sure I understand her idea of being helpful. It's basically to tell me to get together with a group of other dog people and practise. Well, I thought that's why we had obedience classes on Saturdays. When you start trialling it becomes different. You get no individual feedback in a class and in that situation 'near enough is good enough'... nobody in class is going for the same precision and finesse that we go for in the ring. So in that sense, the weekly classes can be a little futile. With a weekly gathering of friends- sure you may spend 10 mins practicing, but they are better than 5hrs at obedience club. You work on one or two things, and you dissect them in every possible way. For example - I had a session yesterday and all we did with Mr Leo was discuss and try and find ways to straighten up his presents/ finishes! Yes - it gets that picky ... we did a teeny bit of UD work, but on the general scale of what you have to cover in your classes - it's nothing. She doesn't want me to enter and said straight out that unless we are completely ready and rock solid, we shouldn't enter because it will do more harm than good. In some sense I agree with this. When you take away your rewards, voice and motivators...add to that 10 gallons of stress and it's a recipe for disaster. Guaranteed you will be stressed!!! You want to go in with the feeling of 'my dog can do all of these exercises to perfection' and not 'he may, he may not'... you have so many other variables to worry about. Of course, most of the time, our dogs don't do what we wan't them to ... but we can't go in with little faith in the dogs... and despite what we say, I think we all know that our dogs CAN do it when we enter a trial... the difference is whether they DO ... Not only can it do harm to you, but also fellow competitors... what if a dog ran into the UD ring next door and caused havoc etc... So - because of these variables, we like our dogs to be MORE than ready. I rather like the idea of just using the trial as practise and putting no pressure on either of us to perform. We'll just get used to being in the ring and being comfortable with the exercises. Yup - you've entered... go along for the experience and to see what it's all about... sometimes, it's hard to get a feel for it, until you are actually there yourself etc . Number one thing to remember.. don't get upset at the dog (not that you would anyway!) if they don't do what you want/ what they usually do... it's a very different scenario for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 A friend of mine had a dog with a cd pass under her belt, who at her next trial left the ring to clear the whole oval of seagulls and would not be caught until they were all airborne! They either will do it or won't, no inbetween. Treat it as a expeirience and most of all -try- to enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted September 28, 2008 Author Share Posted September 28, 2008 You get no individual feedback in a class and in that situation 'near enough is good enough' But where do you find a group of people interested in trialling? Local, I mean. It's not exactly a common or popular pastime, and I thought that's why we all went to a club. I don't know anyone else who wants to trial except Dani (Dee_al) and she's entered Knox as her first trial too, so the two of us together wouldn't be much good cos neither of us would have much of a clue. I will have to think on that one and maybe come up with an alternative. I don't mind it being "picky", I have an excellent eye for detail, so can clue in on those kind of things quite fast but I need to know what I'm being picky about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 I understand how you feel. Diesel CAN work really well, often does at training, but when I take him along to trials just for practice in that environment he falls apart and won't work I think it's partly because I act differently, not as upbeat as I do when training. I did go to one club that is VERY picky about everything to do with trialling, and thought, maybe they can help on some of the fine points, but they also picked on things that you are allowed to do in the ring, just because I did it differently to them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 28, 2008 Share Posted September 28, 2008 GayleK, can you get someone to take some video footage of you two working? If you could post that on here/You Tube I'm sure the experienced triallers would be happy to give you a critique My Dally is still running hot and cold on a few things - until I am confident that he is "with" me I won't be entering him in a trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 Plenty of good advice already, and maybe going to a trial to give the dog a taste of the atmosphere won't do any harm, and a pass a bonus. Just remember that the very good, and high scoring Open/Utility dogs, were also likely to have been very high scoring Novice and CCD dogs. If you accept near enough, you will remain that way, and end up disappointed. If you live a long way from help, then I would suggest that you find some good reading on teaching a comp dog. There is much to learn from a variety of trainers about trialling if you don't discount them on the methods they base their training on. Balabanov dvds give you plenty to think about heeling etc and also older aversively based books like Diane Baumans book. Its the thought behind solving the problem that is important to learn, not how they actually solve it. You can adapt your own methods to suite yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I also wanted to add that, if your experience is anything like mine, you'll make LOADS of mistakes with your first trialling dog - we still got good passes and places but, boy! If I knew then what I know now!!!!! I have no doubt I'll make plenty of new mistakes with my second dog and ever after that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 But where do you find a group of people interested in trialling? Local, I mean. It's not exactly a common or popular pastime, and I thought that's why we all went to a club. I don't know anyone else who wants to trial except Dani (Dee_al) and she's entered Knox as her first trial too, so the two of us together wouldn't be much good cos neither of us would have much of a clue.I will have to think on that one and maybe come up with an alternative. Can you ask this judge/ trainer to take you through the motions after each class on the weekend? I know where you live it's hard to find people - do you have a trial ring set up at your club on a regular basis? How about having another DOL training day - we sometimes have those organised by the likes of me, TSD or DD!!! Putting vids up here is always helpful too ... but harder to get a good idea as video is not as true as what you see by the naked eye Suggest you do some reading.... Try: Kay Laurence Morgan Spector and a bunch of DVDs... have a look on www.dogwise.com... ask around on here and go mad A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I'd be up for a training day - maybe something to keep us out of mischief until FOO starts??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted September 29, 2008 Share Posted September 29, 2008 I'd be up for a training day - maybe something to keep us out of mischief until FOO starts??? Who has time for mischief! Are you still doing your cat thingy?! we could organise something easily if you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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