Help Needed For Second Opinion

[sheenygirl]

Hi, I am hoping that someone here may be able to refer me to a vet or specialist that can give me a second opinion before I have to make the decision to put my beautiful 20mth old Golden Retriever to sleep.

Sasha started limping when she was just 4 1/2mths old in the front elbow and was diagnosed with Elbow Displaysia at 8mths. Sha had a large fragment removed from the elbow at that time. We were hoping that it would heal well and give her some quality of life for many years, but the fragment was very large and the elbow did just not heal.

In the mean time I also notice that her back legs were not quite right and at just after 12 moths she was also diagnosed with hip displaysia in both hips. The vet said as a result of her throwing her weight on her back legs as she was growing up. She has had several cortisone injections into the join to try and get it to heal and one experimental type drug for arthritis also injected into the joint . She has been on all the supplements and does not seem to help.

I had her back to the vets yesterday as I had run out of anti inflammatories and she was limping quited badly again and wobbly in the back legs as well.The vet took one look at her and sat me down and told me that it was time that I thought about putting her to sleep. I trust my vets opinion..and I know that he is highly regarded for dealing with these sort of problems but I can not live with myself without seeing if there is anything else I can do for her.

She is on anti inflams...and will remain so until we have to make that decision.

It has been absolutley heartbreaking for me & my son to whom she is his shadow and best friend. We have known all along that she was going to have problems but just never expected to have to be faced with this decision so soon. I guess to make matters worse is that I am going through a marriage breakup at the same time and she has become a rock for both of us. I know that we just can't deal with this emotionally right now...but also know that i can't be selfish and keep her dosed up on meds for our benefit.

She is just so young and has really just started to mature into the most wonderful natured dog. She seems to be bright enough and happy ...and always greets us eagerly and with a wagging tail. The vets said that she is in pain and will only get worse. I just can't help but thinking there must be something else I can do for her. If there is anyone that knows of a vet or specialist that may be able to help in the Sydney area then I would appreciate that information. I don't think I can do this without at least having the peace of mind that I did everything I could.

Thanks in advance

[Cosmolo]

My dog has been diagnosed with both hip and elbow dysplasia an we opted not to have surgery after research and talking to different specialists. Dexter has been doing underwater treadmill/ physio/ swimming as well as having ester c tablets, cartrophen injections, glucosamine and fish oil tablets and has had 2-3 sore days in the last 2 1/2 months. We do restrict his exercise a little but he still does most of the puppy things he wants to. He is currently 10 months old.

ETA we were warned about the elbow dysplasia though and told that if it gets worse it can be very problematic. Thankfully his limp went away quickly after starting physio/ hydro therapy.

I really feel for you- i know its just a horrible thing to go through.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Cosmolo

[Nekhbet]

no no no no no do NOT put her to sleep.

#1 find yourself a good chiropractic/acupuncture holistic vet - people here should be able to recommend someone in Sydney. I have mine in Geelong and she is literally a life saver

#2 get that dog skinny. She needs to be thin and i mean THIN. Put her on a good adult dog food, raw if possible and do not starve her. Get yourself some joint suppliments (I use fish oil capsules and glucosamine 1500+ chondroitin)

#3 physical therapy. She needs to be able to hold herself up so build muscle. Pool, dam, beach, shallow river just wade her in up to her elbows. It supports her but forces her to use her back legs.

My rottweiler was meant to be euthanased at 10 months of age. He is nearly 13 months old now and he has completely been taken off his pain medication (150mg A DAY) which caused more suffering for him. I bit the bullet took him to Dr Lim and reduced his meds and massaged every day. I did physical therapy, moved his limbs for him and skinnied him up.

Today he can bounce, hop about, play and even go for an hour walk - 3 months ago I had to lift him to even go pee and he screamed if he even lay wrong on his bed. He lost his appetite from the anti inflammatories and I was hand feeing him. Nope do NOT give up. There are people out there who may be able to help, dont make a decision yet.

ETA My old boss was meant to be a highly regarded vet for HD/ED and was also PennHip qualified. He looked at the X-rays and just walked off on me. Another vet even looked at me tearily and we both new he was due for euth since he barely has hip sockets. On the other hand, Dr Lim had a look at 'Oh he is pretty bad isnt he ... oh well he'll just take a bit longer to fix then' and she was very very right. He was off the meds in a couple of months completely and I didnt let him sook I made him get up and walk about to stop his body just falling apart - the vet called him a bag of bones there was nothing holding him together.

the little poo head today - literally today being cheeky and tormenting Skoota. Dont give up, go get another opinion.

Edited September 28, 2008 by Nekhbet

[CavsRcute]

These people may be worth a try:

1.Helen Nicholson for physio

2. Gary Barnesly for chiropractic

3. Mark Hocking or Pam Short for trigger point therapy and acupuncture.

4. All Natural Vet, Russell Lea is also a holistic vet, who might be able to help

Have you tried Sylvet capsules? Jointguard?

There is also a vet who is doing stem cell transplants by taking some of the dogs own adipose tissue, spinning it and then injecting it into the affected joints. This is a new procedure in Australia and doesn't come cheap.

Some of my friends also see Karen Hedberg at North Richmond

You sound as though you are trying to do the best for Sasha. Good luck and PM if you need details

ETA: Terrible spelling

Edited September 28, 2008 by CavsRcute

[Gayle.]

Definitely get more opinions and from alternative practicioners, and don't rely on the opinion of just one mainstream vet. I have seen a dog (a Gordon Setter) that was diagnosed with severe hip dysplasia before she was a year old, and now at 5 years, she lives a happy and pain free life due to her owner seeking alternative therapy.

[ILuvAmstaffs]

Just out of interest, what supps are you using? I have found my boy does best on a glucosamine, msm, chondrioton mix with ester c on top of that.

You could try these guys as I have heard good reports about them in regards to pain management.

http://www.naturalvet.com.au/ourpractice.html

[sheenygirl]

Hi...thank you for your suggestions and for those that have sent me information in PM's . I appreciate your support and advice and will be following up on those vets and alternate therapies. But most of all thank you for giving me some hope back. I will not give up on her. She is too young and full of life...and as a friend pointed out to me today...she has arthritis not some terminal illness...so there is hope.

To answer your questions raised in some of the responses ...She is on Gucosamine condroiten supplement...has been on fish oil...but need to put her back on. She is currently not on any cartrophen injections or tablets ( but has had them prior to surgery).

I have been trying to keep her weight down....at the moment she is not overweight...but could be a bit leaner so will cut back a bit there ...it all has to help.

Acouple of things that I would like some more info on if anyone knows

1. The stem cell research therapy. If anyone knows anymore about this or any vets that are using it.

2. Any good swimming spots/ therapy places...where I can get her in the water. She is a retriever so know that she would love it. Somewhere relatively close ( live in Northwest)..as she also suffers from carsickness and travelling is also traumatic ( she is my problem child!)

Thanks

[ILuvAmstaffs]

Rowland Reserve at Bayview might be a good place for you to try her swimming.

[SammyZ]

Just sending strength and my thoughts your way. Hugs!

Bec.

[Winterpaws]

I'll say what everyone has said and definetely try other options. I'll also eccomend the Natural Vet practive in Russell Lea

One of my old clients had a retriever that was car sick a lot and they now use te travelcalm ginger tablets and they work a treat for him. Hopefully that will help your girl as well

Hoopefully someone will know of a hydrotherapy place in Sydney for you - it would probably be a huge help

Hang in there, I am sure there is hope!

[Bokezu]

Just sending my best wishes to you and Sasha x

[Jed]

A vet I know has had great success with HD in younger dogs, with a graduated regime of exercise designed to strengthen the muscles to keep the joint in place. this involves walkng and swimming, and some physio which the owner can do. this vet is not in your state, but if one vet is doing it, others are too. It took a few months, and the vet felt they would have arthritic problems later in life, but would be fine until then. Maybe ask around, and it does sound as if someone on the forum can recommend a vet who treats in this way.

There were studies done on border collies - some which showed no effects of HD - ie, were running, and behaving normally with no sign of lameness, on X ray, proved to have extremely severe HD. The muscles etc were holding the joint and bones in place.

Good luck with her, she deserves a chance.

We'd love to know how you get on.

[Colliewood]

2. Any good swimming spots/ therapy places...where I can get her in the water. She is a retriever so know that she would love it. Somewhere relatively close ( live in Northwest)..as she also suffers from carsickness and travelling is also traumatic ( she is my problem child!)

Thanks

Hi, There is a place at Luddenam (bet I have spelt that wrong!), just up from before Richmond that has a pool for dogs. They do are for a fee of I think $3 to go towards maintanence etc. I will find the details and post.

If you are in the Northwest can you pm me with the vet who suggested the pts? I am in northwest also and just from interest.

good luck

[wherezaball]

2. Any good swimming spots/ therapy places...where I can get her in the water. She is a retriever so know that she would love it. Somewhere relatively close ( live in Northwest)..as she also suffers from carsickness and travelling is also traumatic ( she is my problem child!)

The pool is in Londonderry (near Richmond) here is the link, it is now $4 per dog and they are open 7am - 7pm 7 days a week. Best to go in the middle of the day then you miss all the greyhound people and hence a line up.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/richmondgrove...ledFrame-14.htm

for the car sickness I would contact Greenpet Australia for help with a car sickness remedy. I have used them quite a bit and recommended them to clients with great success for car sickness and anxiety meds. They woudl also be of help for supplements for her. here is the link

http://greenpet.com.au/pet-shop/

Would also definitely recommend Gary and Neil Barnsley @ Animal Holistic Therapies 4774 8491 and Mark Hocking and Pam Short at Gladesville vet hospital for accupuncture and trigger point therapy. Your dog is bound to have trigger points because she is using her muscles differently which once released can ease alot of pain. Mark is brilliant.

My Lab has HD and I also feed her Hills Science Diet Joint Diet. It is not cheap but worth every cent. I have known lots of dogs who have tried this and they all do better on it.

Good luck

[Nekhbet]

The only reason I dont go straight for JD is just because a dog has mobility problems does not mean it needs the same base food. Some dogs need reduced calorie, some need more oils, some need more protein and some, like my rott, have skin/gut problems and do poorly on the food.

about 18% protein and 15% fat. The protein comes from chicken by product meal which is not even the first ingredient on the list! Very pricey and i find i can achieve the same with human supplements, chicken carcasses and royal canin.

[Staffyluv]

I did not read all the replies, so apologies if this has already been suggested.

Find an holistic vet in your area. They will help heaps and know that there are often options that conventional medicine just do not give a thought to.

You may also want to read up on Ester C (some website links for you):

Working Dogs and Ester C

Ester C and Disc Disease

Vitamin C and Dogs

There are plenty more on the web.

Just have a look on DOL alone to see the benefits of other treatments.

Wishing you the best of luck and don't give up.

[Monah]

You poor thing!! Have you seen a specialist??? although your vet may be very experienced, it is eesential to see a specialist in this area of health. I see one on the sunny coast, so no good for you, he's amazing. We swim our dog twice a day for around an hour a time, or less depending on our schedule, also use the gluc/condontrin etc. I've been told not to bother with Ester C . We also keep our dogs weight around 14 kg lighter than others of the breed, only 10 min walks and a quick off lead run. Please see someone expert before you make a decision. Our dog has improved 100% since last year, although xrays show no difference at all, my specialist does not bother too much with xrays except to diagnose properly, he goes more by how the dog looks and walks and flexibilty etc. Go the whole hog and then, if it is inevitable (pts) at least you know you have done everything poss. I'm not going with surgery as we don't need to ATM and there are no guarantees, but, have you considered it? I do know of several people who have had it done, hip replacements, elbows etc. and it has worked very well, but an ethical orthapedic specialist will tell you it can be a big IF, good recovery etc. I hope you are OK, such a shame

Myofunctional therapy and massage etc can also work wonders!

[CavsRcute]

1. The stem cell research therapy. If anyone knows anymore about this or any vets that are using it.

Thanks

I will PM you with the details

[Lablover]

Such sadness. Good for you trying to find hope for your dog.

Unfortunately there is no real cure for the conditions, simply treating symptoms. I should imagine joint (hip) replacement surgery would not be an ideal situation for either you or your dogs.

One thought.......do not feel shy in asking your vet for a second opinion. Or that mattter more opinions if you would be more confident or at ease. Your vet, likewise human doctors are normally very happy to provide clinical notes/referrals, xrays, including surgery outcomes or any other information.

Good luck++++++++. Quality of life is sooooooo important. Sometimes the greatest love we can show our dogs, is letting them go. It is so difficult if they are young. Most are so stoic.

In your case is there a kiss lesion on the other elbow? What type of elbow dysplasia? One elbow joint and both hips?. O dear...........such sadness.

Edited September 29, 2008 by Lablover

[alanglen]

My heart really goes out to you, such a hard spot to be in, but where there is a keen attitude and a loving mum there is usually still something else to try! I would reccomend the acupuncture, massage and hydrotherapy very strongly. The nutritional supplements are a must as is regular (monthly) usage of cartrophen. Keep her comfortable on the anti-inflamm for a while, plenty of dogs live happily on them for a long time and it will buy her comfortable time for you to find her other help. Always best to see a specialist and they will also talk about the option of hip replacement. She is only young, she would get many years out of the surgery and whilst it is costly, I have seen it be a magic cure-all fix many times now. Stem cells will be a great option but probably not in time to help your girl at all, there is still so much research to be done. Start finding yourself a great vet acupuncturist and a well qualified/trained massage/myotherapist/hydrotherapit etc and get her onto a program.

There is definately hope out there and lots of things that will help her and lots of us have been down that track before.

Thinking of you both and feel free to PM if there is anything else you need.

Alanglen