Socialisation Help

[violetmay]

Hi

I'm pretty new to having a dog. I adopted a maltese boy from the pound about two months ago and called him Scruffy. He is desexed and approx 3 years old. He was found as a stray and I know no other details of his past. He is lovely with people and a big baby at home.

I'm having major problems with him trying to attack other dogs. We've been going to dog obedience classes weekly since we've got him and he behaves terribly there always trying to attack big dogs, but in particular a big fluffy golden dog. When I walk him he is always trying to attack bigger dogs, and even some smaller dogs. I just spent an hour at an off the lead dog park (no I didn't take him off the lead, I don't trust him enough). There was two big golden fluffy dogs there that he just wanted to kill. He got along with some of the smaller dogs, but pretty much barked 80% of the time we were there because of the big gold fluffy dogs.

The check chain type training we are doing at dog obedience classes does not work for him, so I decided that we would try clicker training. I bought a clicker and a treat pouch and he enjoys the clicker training process with that at home. Once out walking (even if there are no other dogs around) he is way too stressed to consider eating a treat. So I think the idea of using a clicker is good, as it is a reward that doesn't rely on him being comfortable enough to eat.

I was thinking initially that desensitization to bigger dogs is going to be the only way that he will learn to be friendly, but perhaps I am traumatizing him more by exposing him to big golden dogs at the dog park. Does anyone have any opinions on this?

None of the dogs today were a bit worried about Scruffy and his barking, but I wont always be so lucky. There was so many dogs at the dog park all playing together having a lovely friendly time, and my dog was barking and stressed like crazy while I was trying to pat him and talk soothingly.

Perhaps he had a bad experience with a big gold fluffy dog in his past life, I'm just at a loss at what to do to help him.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or help.

[Kavik]

I think you should get some help from a behaviourist. They can give you a program to help deal with other dogs.

For now, I would avoid off lead parks as they are making the situation worse. If he is uncomfortable around other dogs, then lots of dogs running around like crazy and possibly getting in his space is going to make him stressed and he will get aggressive.

[Luke W]

I'll let others more experience than me discuss the agression/fear issues...

The clicker is NOT a reward. The clicker is a signal that says "You did the right thing. A reward is coming".

A click should ALWAYS be followed up with a reward.

http://www.clickertraining.com/

Then buy the book(s) !

[persephone]

a big baby at home.

he is a sook?

or do you treat him as a baby? small, cute...

I second the suggestion of getting a behaviourist in to have a look

[Erny]

The check chain type training we are doing at dog obedience classes does not work for him, so I decided that we would try clicker training.

It's not so much just a matter of "training". It is a matter of "desensitisation" and "counter conditioning" (ie teaching him an alternative more acceptable response behaviour). Training for obedience assists with the desensitisation work. But there is often more to it than this. Your dog is more than likely afraid of these other dogs. Before he'll be likely to accept you governing his desensitisation regime, he needs to (a) perceive (b) accept and © trust in your capabilities as "leader". All of this can be explained and a method for you to adopt when you find yourself in these circumstances that will not only assist him but will be complimentary to your leadership skills would be demonstrated to you by a trainer/behaviourist.

I was thinking initially that desensitization to bigger dogs is going to be the only way that he will learn to be friendly, but perhaps I am traumatizing him more by exposing him to big golden dogs at the dog park. Does anyone have any opinions on this?

I agree some desensitisation is required (refer above) but as you say, it can have the opposite affect if the desensitisation is not done properly. Without knowing your dog, no-one can set out a 'plan' for you to follow. It would all be your judgement call. And this is where you obtaining some professional "one-on-one" help would be an advantage.

... my dog was barking and stressed like crazy while I was trying to pat him and talk soothingly.

Sorry Violetmay - this is "no-no" number one and is of the most common (and very human) mistakes many people make in your predicament. By patting him; talking soothingly; or just generally giving him attention could be exacerbating the problem as he could be perceiving your message as an encouragement for his behaviour.

Perhaps he had a bad experience with a big gold fluffy dog in his past life, I'm just at a loss at what to do to help him.

It's possible. Whilst it is always helpful when we can be informed of the historical events of a dog's life when it comes to behaviour problem solving, it is not mandatory and we can often make educated assumptions as to the problem both initially and along the way of the behaviour modification program set for you to follow.

[violetmay]

Oh wow, thanks for all the responses. Yes I will to get some professional help re his behavior, but as I am a very stressed/busy university student, there is no way I am going to be mentally able to do that until the semester is over and it is Christmas holidays. My daughter has taken him at dog obedience classes until this week when I had my first go, but it's all been so overwhelming at uni, I barely been able to do the dog obedience thing with the dog, just sometimes, but mostly it has been my daughter. I'm on a weeks holidays now so am having a few days off for my own sanity.

I need to find a way to deal with his behaviour until then. Yes he is a bit sooky in new social situations (eg. waiting at a fish in chip shop or at the beach) and cries quite a lot - quite often he is cold and that is why he cries. I'm in Brisbane and the weather is getting warmer, but sometimes it is windy at the local beach (bay not surf beach). I guess he is spoilt too, definitely a lap dog, he seems to need constant reassurance and cuddles and just goes from one lap to the other most of the time.

I will stop cuddling him when exposed to other dogs at dog parks. I think I may try and avoid them for a while, they are OK in the morning when there are no other dogs there, but the afternoon is just too busy.

I'll just have to play it safe until Christmas holidays and just limit his stress. I'll talk to the dog obedience club I go to, they offered me one-on-one training a few weeks ago, as they are really concerned about his behaviour, so I will see what they say. They aren't into clicker training there, they tried in in the past and it didn't work out, but I will chat to them and see - they are really lovely.

[Lablover]

Hi

my dog was barking and stressed like crazy while I was trying to pat him and talk soothingly.

This is a significant error, you are reinforcing his response. As you are already a member of a club, do not feel shy in asking for help. Try to arrive much earlier to class or stay around afterwards. Hopefully there will be some kind experienced person.

You can test your dog for reactivity in so many ways. The secret is finding the best way to try to change behaviour.

[Kavik]

If you let us know where you are (general area) we can also point you in the direction of some good places for training

You want to look for a place which uses rewards (food and/or toys).

Any training for now I would do at a distance to other dogs, do not get close enough that he will react.

[Cosmolo]

Group classes are often not suitable for highly reactive dogs- depending on the class. Ideally you would look into one on one training straight away but if thats not possible, i would avoid situations where the dog practices the behaviour until you can get professional help.

[Erny]

As per what Cosmolo has said.

Depending on the (a) dog school and instructor knowledge and (b) the knowledge/experience of the handler, classes are best to integrate to after you've had one-on-one help and gradually built your dog up to being able to cope with an environment that is full of other dogs. Classes are the next step up beyond being able to cope with one or two dogs, as at least at dog school it is a controlled environment. But one-on-one help to prepare your dog for more is what would be the best bet for your dog.

[violetmay]

Thanks for your help, I live in the Bayside/Redlands area of Brisbane which is south east. Yes I need positive reinforcement for him, not negative - so some suggestions would be good.

I think I'm feeling really shocked as to how bad he is, the president of my dog club was telling me a few weeks how concerned they were about his behaviour, but I never really got it until seeing him at the dog park and seeing his behaviour in comparison with other dogs. I'll go early and have a chat with the president on Wednesday night and see what the club can offer.

The dog is very stressed/scared of other dogs and that leads to aggression.

I don't think I've mentioned, but the dog displays no interest in toys at all. He doesn't play, doesn't even look to try and retrieve a thrown object. One morning a few weeks back, my daughter and I got him excited and playing with a small squeaky caterpillar I bought at Woolies, but we haven't been able to entice him back to that happy playful behaviour since, though we try continuously.

Edited September 27, 2008 by violetmay

[Kavik]

I agree that really what you need is one on one lessons first

My Zoe is aggressive towards other dogs and I wish I had gone to see someone straight away rather than continuing to go to a club.

[persephone]

definitely a lap dog, he seems to need constant reassurance and cuddles and just goes from one lap to the other most of the time.

Well... this action by you and your family can actually be unhelpful

If the dog is clingy,and anxious, and you cuddle and pet him, and have him on your lap.......you are reinforcing that fearful/anxious behaviour!!!

IMO-

he should only have cuddles, etc when he is being settled and happy!!

Dogs are different than humans........

he may also be very unsure of where he 'fits' in the family... he may be looking to you for direction, but not understanding..

may I recommend you have a read of

This

and This One will give you an idea of how a doggy brain works

and also THIS

Breathe deeply........enjoy your "me' time, and also your start to creating a confident and secure little dog