Dame Aussie Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Hi guys, I've just been reading and have noticed that Ivermectin should not be given to Collie breeds incl Aussies, I was not aware of this and we have given our Aussie Advocate which doesn't contact Ivermectin but other products ending in -ectin. She has been fine but I don't even know what symptoms would be if she was sensitive! Can anyone give me some more information regarding this? Is it all dogs of this breed which are sensitive or only some? How dangerous is it and what can I use instead? Thanks ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 We don't use ivermectin on our Koolies, either. From memory... correct me quickly if I'm wrong ... It has something to do with the liver and the speed of metabolism... Sorry..brain has gone blank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laffi Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I found this website very helpful: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/ Btw I use Sentinel Spectrum for my aussie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) You can have a DNA test done to see if your dog MDR1 affected. If they are clear or a carrier then ivermectin shouldn't be any more of a problem than to any other dog. Its only about $60 for the test. ETA You can get the test done in Aus through http://www.gtg.com.au/AnimalDNATesting/ind...?menuid=080.150 Edited September 23, 2008 by Janba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 Thanks for the info guys I think I'll just start using Sentinel Spectrum, I'm really starting to get annoyed at vets for not giving out this sort of information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnie N Her Aussie Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Aussie3, I know of a few Aussies who are sensitive to Ivermectin; but I'd seriously suggest calling your vet so he or she can explain to you everything about it and how much of it needs to be in your dog before your dog can take a serious effect. The way my doctor explained it was as if your dog would need to "drink it" before she'd have any effect. I'm really not in the know with this subject; but I'd cuggest calling your vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colliewood Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 We just avoid any mectin based products for our Aussies, BC's and Rough's. Including the heartworm injection which has Moximectin. I know the dose is low and the chances are slim but alternatives are there like Interceptor etc so I choose to avoid them altogether. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sausy.dog Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) I have just treated my BCx with Advocate for sarcoptic mange - what would have been a good alternative? When I was growing up our kelpie sheep dogs often got this and we used to use a product called 'Flints Oil' which they loathed but used to to work but it wasn't anywhere near as easy. I thinkit was a horse product and don't even know if you can get it anymore. Also is this sensitivity an accumulative thing or have they either got it or not, ie should she have had a reaction by now if she is sensitive or can it build up over time and doses? Edited to add: When I say just treated I mean probably close to a fortnight ago. Edited September 24, 2008 by lizandel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 have a look at www.busteralert.com definitely would not use any mectin products unless the dog was DNA Tested as Clear for the Ivermectin Sensitivity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I have just treated my BCx with Advocate for sarcoptic mange - what would have been a good alternative? When I was growing up our kelpie sheep dogs often got this and we used to use a product called 'Flints Oil' which they loathed but used to to work but it wasn't anywhere near as easy. I thinkit was a horse product and don't even know if you can get it anymore.Also is this sensitivity an accumulative thing or have they either got it or not, ie should she have had a reaction by now if she is sensitive or can it build up over time and doses? Edited to add: When I say just treated I mean probably close to a fortnight ago. Flints oil is still available. Always handy in the medicine cupboard when you have horses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 have a look at www.busteralert.comdefinitely would not use any mectin products unless the dog was DNA Tested as Clear for the Ivermectin Sensitivity Wow, I'm sold, I'll be keeping our advocate for when we get our new puppy who's not a collie breed. Again, why do the vets not know about this or not tell their customers? If a dog is affected by this are the symptoms shown straight away or later? We've treated Lili with Advocate twice as directed and I'm really worried now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Wow, I'm sold, I'll be keeping our advocate for when we get our new puppy who's not a collie breed.Again, why do the vets not know about this or not tell their customers? If a dog is affected by this are the symptoms shown straight away or later? We've treated Lili with Advocate twice as directed and I'm really worried now I think a lot of vets are aware and it is not only ivermectin but a range of other drugs as well that are listed in the link laffi posted. I don't know what the incidence of the mutant MDR1 gene is in the Aussie shepherd but it may be very low. Your dog will only have a problem if they carry 2 copies of the mutant gene. Have you rung your breeder and asked if they have DNA tested your pups parents for the MDR1 mutation - only one needs to have been tested if that one came back clear and if you are really worried have the test done yourself. It is done by cheek swab so you don't have a vet. Have a lok at that link I posted earlier. The only way you are going to know if your dog has a problem with ivermectin is via DNA or give it a big dose and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wylie Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Actually with Aussies only one copy of the MDR1 gene is needed for a reaction unfortunately. The incidence is actually higher than many believe so therefore most breeders advise puppy buyers not to utilise anything in the "ctin" range. As a breeder i certainly do and also make sure that puppy buyers hand a sheet of information to there vets about MDR1 sensitivity. Better to be safe than sorry in my books. And i know of a pup that was given 1 single heartguard and ended up in hospital later that evening due to his reaction. It is a drug that can have immediate effects or it can build up in the system and then have a reaction later. Many Aussies have been fine on "ctin' products and then react badly. So you never know if it will be the first dose or the second or any other subsequent doses. For heartworm Interceptor is the product of choice or DEC. For fleas and ticks frontline or Advantix. Interceptor is also a general all wormer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Try and find a long term study on the effects of Ivermectin and Moxidectin in brood bitches, stud dogs and pregnant bitches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedsur Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 We always tell our puppy buyers not to use products ending in 'ectin' especially heartworm treatments. We only suggest using Sentinel Spectrum or Interceptor Spectrum. Then I get an email from one puppy buyer who's vet said 'no you can give them the yearly proheart injection'. Fortunately I pumped it into her brain enough that she said 'no her breeder said never to give it to her and I won't'. The vet even called the proheart company and they said it was ok to give to shelties at 12 weeks with her vaccination! :D What hope do we have! Then I told her to google the proheart injection to find out all the other negative things about it. I think I may have scared her But it was for the puppies own good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashka1 Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) What about Advantix? I was told it is OK for shelties and collies ? It is not listed on the sites as one to not use but I am still concerned. What symptoms would you see if there was a reaction and in what time frame? Edit while getting packet..ingredients.Imiacloprid , permethrin, N-methylpyrrolidone... Advantage DUO was listed as an Ivimectin based one Edited September 24, 2008 by ashka1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gayle. Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Vets don't know, which is why they didn't tell you. Bensons breeder told me before I bought him, then gave me a list of typed instructions, which also included the warning about ivermectin. Dusty's breeder made sure I knew before she sent her over, and she also came with a list of typed instructions and a warning about the drug. My dogs have seen 3 different local vets and none of them knew about ivermectin sensitivity in Australian Shepherds, although two of them did know about it in collies and didn't associate Aussies with the same doggy family. One vet handed me a bag of trial products which included a sample of Advocate, which she then took back off me when I explained about ivermectin. Oh, and none of the vets had ever seen an Australian Shepherd before they saw mine. One well known breeder told me it's highly unlikely to be a problem in tri-coloured Aussies, but unless I get the dogs DNA tested, there's no way I am taking a chance when there are perfectly good and suitable alternative products available. I am very, very, VERY surprised the breeder you bought your dog from didn't warn you about ivermectin. I thought all Aussie breeders would include it in their puppy info as a matter of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 Yeah it's a bit of a worry, they didn't say anything about it I'm going to start using sentinel spectrum instead, I just hope there hasn't been any damage done. Thanks for the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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