Staff'n'Toller Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Ok, question for the trainers and obedience handlers/competitors. How did you teach your dog to return around behind your back and what's your cue word? I'm interested to see how it's taught positively these days. Cheers, Mel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I just lured him. From in front... Treat in both hands, right hand lure him behind, when he's behind, quickly remove right hand and quickly stick left hand in front of dogs nose (kind of swapping hands) and lure him to the heel position. Fade the lures (left hand first, then right), then fade the left hand part of the hand signal. Then stylise the right hand part of the lure signal. I don't have a word cue yet 'cos I can't make up my mind what it should be!!...I'm thinking it'll be 'behind'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 (edited) I just lured him.From in front... Treat in both hands, right hand lure him behind, when he's behind, quickly remove right hand and quickly stick left hand in front of dogs nose (kind of swapping hands) and lure him to the heel position. Fade the lures (left hand first, then right), then fade the left hand part of the hand signal. Then stylise the right hand part of the lure signal. I don't have a word cue yet 'cos I can't make up my mind what it should be!!...I'm thinking it'll be 'behind'. Ditto. I found it really quick to teach. I just use the word 'heel' which is probably wrong but works well ETA: I just lured Daisy behind me and into the heel position with the treat, and then phased out the lure and just used my right hand to signal the command. Edited September 22, 2008 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Yep pretty much the same way as the others, you can take a step forward at the end to get them in the right position. I am experimenting with Kaos by starting teaching this with dog on right hand side instead of front, as an additional step. Not competing in obedience with him so just for fun. I use 'Heel' as command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 PS - I'm going to use "behind" because I think I'll use 'heel' for the move to heel without moving behind me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I've only taught one kind of finish to each dog - Zoe I taught behind, Diesel I taught flip. Kaos I am teaching behind for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I've taught the return to heel as "heel"and the flip as "back" Both commands I lured to teach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I use heel for everything, it is only the hand signal that changes. Afterall, "heel" means "get yourself to my lefthand sidead stay there no matter what I do or where I go". I have never had issues with dogs not knowing the difference, I seriously doubt that they pay any attention to the words anyway. We teach it by having the dog in front and a treat in both hands. Move your right leg back as if to walk backwards and lure with your right hand, cross the lead behind your back and pick up the dog with the treat on the left hand, move right leg in front of left and then bring the left leg beside it. By taking that step in front the dog is encouraged to keep moving to get into position and can see the left leg stop which should be its cue for an auto-sit. Most dogs only need this done once or twice before you can cut out the extra step. Then cut out the backwards step after a few more reps. I have not known a dog to have trouble working it out after a few minutes. They may not be in perfect position but that is easy enough to correct, so long as they understand that the left hand moving backwards means to go around behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Heel means get into heel position here. Heel is the position at my left leg that they maintain at all times - be it standing still, returning to position from in front or me stepping to the side. No need for another command with the heel position. I teach it pretty much the same way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 FWIW... With the goal of trailing... It's been suggested to me that I teach two methods for heel from a sit in front. One going behind and one a short anticlockwise 'loop' in front to the left. This is to prevent the dog from anticipating a heel from a front and 'chaining' the two together. He has to wait for the heel command, because he doesn't know which one it's going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 FWIW...With the goal of trailing... It's been suggested to me that I teach two methods for heel from a sit in front. One going behind and one a short anticlockwise 'loop' in front to the left. This is to prevent the dog from anticipating a heel from a front and 'chaining' the two together. He has to wait for the heel command, because he doesn't know which one it's going to be. Definite benefit! I find 'we' (dogs an myself) are better at one as opposed to the other, however it's always good to have another on tabs to prevent the anticipating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Luke, yeah thats why I have the heel and the back Well its not why I taught it but it comes in handy now I have taught it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Funny thing is I never practice finishes at training - I have both finishes but only do the around the back one in a trial. Ness has not only anticipated the finish but after a directed jumping exercise will often anticipate the finish and do the other finish that we NEVER do in trials and only rarely in training . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 (edited) I've taught the return to heel as "heel"and the flip as "back"Both commands I lured to teach Ah ok, I never knew it was called the flip... "Back" for me is walk backwards... Edited September 22, 2008 by Luke W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 FWIW...With the goal of trailing... It's been suggested to me that I teach two methods for heel from a sit in front. One going behind and one a short anticlockwise 'loop' in front to the left. This is to prevent the dog from anticipating a heel from a front and 'chaining' the two together. He has to wait for the heel command, because he doesn't know which one it's going to be. I have been taught pretty much the same thing. 'Come' is to sit in front and 'Heel' is go behind and sit at my left side or the loop in front to left (as above) amd we also change it up. Mine too was to stop the anticipation finishing. I also have to use the Free command, she will sit and wait until I have released her by word or signal - well this is what is MEANT to happen, we all have our good and bad days *LOL* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff'n'Toller Posted September 22, 2008 Author Share Posted September 22, 2008 Thanks for the replies, being in mostly pet dog obedience at the moment I just wanted to see if there were many variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoemonster Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Hmm you are right, I have taught them back as in back up as well, but they seem to understand the difference and what I want, if they are in front and I ask for back and do a flip finish, if we are going out a door nd I say back they shuffle back out of the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Hmm you are right, I have taught them back as in back up as well, but they seem to understand the difference and what I want, if they are in front and I ask for back and do a flip finish, if we are going out a door nd I say back they shuffle back out of the way One of the advantages of them not being able to generalise very well I guess. Back means one thing when they are in front, versus when they are at the door. The are also masters of body language, so a subtle head tilt might mean 'flip' and a slight shitfing of weight might mean get out of the dorrway. You might not even realise you give off these subtle body language cues. I'm still in the beginning of training with my dog and rely mostly on hand signals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 So is a "flip" when they move from a sit directly in front of you to then sit in heel position without going behind you? So far behind in my training for all sorts of reasons. I'm still working on getting the heel position right! We'll get there one day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke W Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 So is a "flip" when they move from a sit directly in front of you to then sit in heel position without going behind you? So far behind in my training for all sorts of reasons. I'm still working on getting the heel position right! We'll get there one day! Here's a video of a flip I found: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD4E1edA36o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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