My Puppy Is Bouncing Off The Walls

[aquaticmalamute]

I'll repeat for you, I have shown a pup, then we did some showing as he was maturing, he knew how to sit from the get go and him sitting in the show ring was never a problem.

I've never had push button dogs either.

I know that's what you said and I said that it was great that you got your puppy to hold a stack.

That's great you got your puppy to hold a stack when asked

Nor did I imply that you had push button dogs but was simply stating that Malamutes aren't because.....

but it ain't gonna happen with a breed of dog that was bred to dismiss their owners commands - it certainly doesn't help when there is food involved

[Nekhbet]

remember food based toys only work if the dog is hungry and frustrated enough to put energy into it - It should be in bold on the packet "works best when dogs meal is placed inside and not in dogs bowl"!

Try lamb flaps and nice fatty chicken off cuts/carcasses to help with the weight. Won't hype up the pup too much either, or some satin balls in the afternoon/evening can help with the bulking out.

Energy food in the AM, fatty food in the PM to put weight on. Or if you want to drop weight energy food in the AM and low cal filler in the evening.

If he's food orientated you can teach him to search - hide the food under a box and encourage him to sniff it out and tip the box over. Its a dynamic game, you can add more boxes or baskets etc and make it harder for him to find it. Stinky things like kabana, ham etc are great for this game and not being too repetitive it holds his interest for longer. You can even put part of his meal into this game if you become worried about calories.

[~*Shell*~]

Hey Nikki,

I don't have much advice - the swimming idea was a great one though. It tires Zero out like all hell! He's not a pup though so I have a feeling it would take a lot more to tire boh out.

Have you tried freezing things in ice? Zero will work for hours to try and get whatever i freeze in an icecream container (even better if it's a 4 litre one that has fish in it) and he's usually pretty tired after it, especially if i freeze whatever it is in the deep freezer!

I really feel for you! I know how hard it is to think of things to occupy Zero's mind - and he's able to learn all the "sit" based commands. Good luck with Boh! If it makes you feel any better, he's gorgeous!

[Erny]

Although my little man is younger I notice a difference in behaviour when he has an overstimulated day. By that I don't mean when I've done training (ie "think" stuff), but when he's been madly active and so much so that he hasn't taken the naps he should have. On those ocassions he's been difficult to put to bed and settle and is wide awake and raring to go at late hours of the night.

Perhaps this is part of the problem for you? If it is, then apart from ensuring that you are providing adequate mental stimulation during the day, I would suggest you insist on some 'down time' in between.

Edited September 15, 2008 by Erny

[aquaticmalamute]

Again Nekhbet, great ideas! He will be great at the hiding a treat under a box trick, he is too smart when I give him both of my hands and ask him which one - he gets it every time. I must admit though that I do put a box on him and watch him try to get out, though I think that it amuses me more than him

He is always hungry so the treat ball with his meal in it will work well, as will 'find the treat' games He already gets a chicken frame once a day (large carcass including organs) and lamb flaps for lunch when I don't have a kunckle bone on hand. In summer I like to go fishing and give the dogs my catch so that will be good to add to his diet too.

Cowanbree - That's helpful to hear that your Aussie is similar. Now I don't feel like i'm the only one who owns an energizer bunny for a dog. I also worry that the more I exercise him the fitter he gets and the more work he will need to keep up with his fitness. This is something I don't want to have to put a puppy through. I would much rather exercise his mind to tire him out. It really hit home when my OH and I sat down, and he looked at me with all honestly and said "we might have to seperate them permanantly" i'm determined to make this work and not have him living in a run.

Shell - Zero loves water eh? All of my dogs have been mortified at the thought of getting wet, which is why it's such a suprise that Boh actually likes water! I do freeze treats for him too, maybe I need a bucket not an ice cream container! Boh usually gets bones in his.

Thanks Someone who lives with a nordic breed and understands how hard it is to keep them focussed is great! Boh, gorgeous? nah he has just had a growth spurt and is going through the uglies - skinny head long legs tail is doing silly things - even his cuteness can't save him this week!

Erny - Interesting thought, perhaps a forced rest during the day is in order - wouldn't hurt to try anyway!

[Kavik]

There is a lot of foundation work for agility you can do without equipment and that is OK for puppies - some handling moves, definitely a good recall, sit and/or drop stay. There is a good thread on foundation work in this section somewhere (I'll try to find it for you).

Weaving is tough on them and you don't want to be actually weaving til the dog is fully grown. However you could set up a channel with weaves and send him through that as a start on channel weaving, but don't close the channel until he is grown. This is what I did with Kaos. He is much better than in the video now (vid was taken over a year ago) but shows what I mean. I haven't gotten OH to video his progress yet on weaving. I had one person holding him and I had food/toy at other end normally, but he also will go to a food target which I used in the video.

[corvus]

People are gonna disagree with me here, but I don't think he thinks he's alpha. I think he wants to control his own destiny but he's still a pup and hasn't figured out just how yet, and maybe sometimes he gets scared like a pup. Kivi is 6 months and he still gets pretty freaked when dogs bark at him. He wants to run away. Sure, he's a total wuss and has never so much as growled in all the time I've known him, but I think being scared of dogs barking or acting aggressively is natural for a pup. At least, most pups. Even if they bark and carry on back, that can be because they are frightened and don't know how else to respond to make them feel less afraid. If he's anxious about something, maybe you need to find a way to tell him it's all cool. If he's nuts about food, you could try sitting on the street in front of the houses with scary dogs and doing a quick and happy training session with loads of awesome treats. When Penny is anxious, sometimes the best I can do for her is to reassure her and give her a cuddle and move on, but sometimes the best I can do is ask her to do something she knows and then reward her highly when she does it. Depends on what she's afraid of. Of course, my dogs are push button dogs.

Another thing you can try is free-shaping. Nothing wears Kivi out like trying to figure out what is going to make the clicker click. Just wait for Boh to do something and click it. One thing I got Kivi doing thorugh free-shaping was walking backwards. Just make sure you keep the clicks coming or he'll get bored. If Kivi does nothing for a good 30 seconds, I walk around or put something in front of him casually to try to prompt something I can click.

Kodi is a tough one... If it were me, I'd separate them. KT has only been sharing a yard with Penny full time for about a month. I waited until I was confident they would leave each other alone. And until I thought Penny would be happier with him than on her own. It took a while. But Penny stands up for herself and Kivi respects her and the boundaries she sets. I knew a dog who would never gruff at a pup, and consequently he would spend hours standing in a wading pool where this pup couldn't get to him. It wasn't fair on him. It's not his fault he's a sweet gentleman and would rather stand in a pool for hours then gruff at a puppy. As far as I know, you can't teach a dog to stand up for themselves when they just don't want to. You can try to impose order yourself, but who's to stop him when you're not around? He's too clever in all the wrong ways to never try it and discover you are not omnipotent.

Maybe I'm reading the situation wrong, and that wouldn't surprise me as I have some idea how much time you spend with Boh and he's not going to be like my human-fawning teddy bears, but I wonder if he has really bonded with you and trusts you. A lot of Kivi's moments evaporated once we had formed a bit of a predictable response to his various behaviours. There's nothing like predictability to instill a sense of trust in an animal, and a sense of what you expect of them. The more feedback you give them the better they come to understand you. I always find that when I spend time with Kivi training vocal directions on walks, for example, I feel so much closer to him than I do when he's just doing his own thing. He's listening to me and choosing to heed me. I think that our relationship has improved quite a bit for that.

I think the swimming is a great idea and the frozen meals. We hide little frozen recreational bones around the yard for Kivi. I'm not sure if he finds them or Penny, but we hide enough that they should both have something. And they bury things in the garden all the time and dig them up when they remember them. I think they spend a lot of time every day just chewing old bones. And giving them something really hard is good exercise, too. Leslie Nelson's Really Reliable Recall dvd explains how to train difficult breeds like Mals to come when called no matter what. If Boh comes when called, you have so many more options for spending time with him and having fun and exercise. I have the dvd if you want to borrow it. My mother has it at Morisset at the moment. Teaching a good recall is also great for bonding, which might help you in other areas.

[Diva]

This has been a great thread for me as I have an eight month old who is also an energiser bunny, I swear she's more trying than my last two puppies combined. I have to make very interaction a training opportunity - as in detach any emotional response and work on her behaviour as if she were someone else's dog. Otherwise my frustration level rises to the point we aren't communicating anymore, because she isn't responding as quickly as all my previous dogs have responded and it drives me nuts - she's very sweet and loving, but hypes herself up to the point she has zero manners. None of the anxiety or vocalisation behaviours though, so I guess I have some blessings to count, but I'm soo keen for her to grow up.

[MonElite]

Having a previous mal that I taught to sit and also showed I would never do it again, if you talk to other showies they agree not to teach a show dog to sit. The time that the dog has to stack for (and the short attention span of a mal) they will try out other things to get that treat, including sitting.

Im one of the other showies and gotta agree with Staff'n'Toller you can teach a sit and have a show dog. hey I own one. And I dissagree with what you said.

But I also taught a stand command. And my dog does a stand from a sit and from a drop.

Never ever that I had a problem in the show ring with my dog sitting. when I finish runing and come to a halt I say stand and she never ever sits. She never ever sits on a free stack either.

What you are reffering to is a dog offering random behaviours that earn it a treat. Well I dont give treats for random behaviours but only after a comand is exacuted. In fact if my dog offers a behaviour that I didnt ask for I turn around and ignore her.

You want the dog to stand you tell it to stand and than give it a treat, to me what you wrote indicates that your dog doesnt know the STAND comand, and the previous one you showed didnt know it either.

[Erny]

Having a previous mal that I taught to sit and also showed I would never do it again, if you talk to other showies they agree not to teach a show dog to sit. The time that the dog has to stack for (and the short attention span of a mal) they will try out other things to get that treat, including sitting.

Im one of the other showies and gotta agree with Staff'n'Toller you can teach a sit and have a show dog. hey I own one. And I dissagree with what you said.

I agree with Monelite.

Not teaching the "sit" is only avoiding the problem and then *hoping* it won't happen in the show ring. Teaching the sit well and as Monelite suggests, teaching the stand well, will give you the reliability that it is less likely to occur in the ring - even less likely than if you didn't train the sit in the first place. Dogs don't need to be trained to sit - they already know how to do it. But by training the sit, you are placing it under command control.

Edited September 17, 2008 by Erny

[aquaticmalamute]

You want the dog to stand you tell it to stand and than give it a treat, to me what you wrote indicates that your dog doesnt know the STAND comand, and the previous one you showed didnt know it either.

Sorry, I don't think I said that Boh doesn't know the stand command In fact he is fantastic with stand - my problem is that he associates "stand" with standing stock still, not stacking correctly. I am however working on teaching him to free stack with his feet evenly placed when I say 'stand'. He stands perfectly when we get back from our routine (triangle/up and back etc) and in the line-up and he thus far has never sat in the ring.

My previous dog (who was baited and died at 7 months) used to offer a sit when he wasn't rewarded straight away for stacking. At home he was great as I could reward him straight away, but at the show while baiting him on a line-up he did offer random behaviours It's my fault for not teaching him to hold his stack for longer before giving him the treat.

I didn't come here to ask about sitting or stacking, and don't really want to feel like I have to explain myself when I say that I don't want to teach my dog to sit. There is split opinion about teaching show dogs to sit or not, and i'm one of those who choose not to teach sit. Peroid.

Kavik - Thanks for the video, having never done/thought about doing agilitly I wouldn't even know where to start teaching my boy. I thought it would be a great way to work his mind and body while helping keep a close bond and good communication.

Corvus - Wow what a reply! I'll try and cover everything for you

I'm unsure about his pack status. He does show quite a few dominant behaviours but only toward Kodi, I think it's more of a working out pack structure at the minute. He is a very confident pup at home and in a show atmosphere, but go for a walk which he associates with charging, barking dogs, he falls apart and just doesn't know how to respond. I get the impression that he thinks he should do something about it because Kodi and I obviously aren't - we ignore, look straight ahead and keep walking. I've tried the whole ignoring the behaviour, reprimanding the behaviour and encouraging him to focus on me, which none are terribly successful, next in line will be to do as you suggested and actually stop to do some focus work outside the dogs fence still he calms down. I don't think fussing him will help with his problem, he is the kind of dog to think that there really is something to worry about, thus making him worse.

With free shaping do you have a command to go with the clicking? Say when Kivi Tarro starts to walk backwards do you say 'back' instantly following the click?

See with Kodi, when I had Flinne she was fantastic at disciplining him. I never had a problem with him harassing her all day. I'm not sure if it's the fact that Kodi is getting older and doesn't want to challenge him for position in the pack, or she has turned into a softie and is letting him keep his puppy licence. Seperating them at the minute is a very real option if I can't get his hyperactiveness under control. As you said I can step in when i'm here which is what i've been doing when I can, but he is smarter than that and i'm sure she cops it while i'm gone.

I agree with you when you wonder if he has really bonded with me. Malamutes are awefully aloof and independant, they don't need their people and are more of a dog-pack dog. It feels like the time I spend with him at home is either training or rousing on him. I do spend alot of time outside just being with the dogs while I garden/weed, hang clothes on the line, wash the car and the like, they do hang out with me but are more intent on playing with eachother than me. As you would know I spend alot of one on one time with Boh, when we are alone he is great - obedient, mellow and very well behaved, but bring Kodi into the picture and he just goes bananas!

Swimming is an absolute fantastic idea, i've already organised to go to my parents on Sunday for him to have a swim in the lake - we shall see how it goes! The last few days i've been trying out the different suggestions, he is working for all of his meals which eats up alot of his time (and gives Kodi some peace!), he has beef bones to chew on which last as long as it takes till he gets bored of then then buries them A sand pitt is going in up the back for him to dig in to his hearts delight, and to look for buried treasure! I've also cut down on his Euk and upped his raw AND taught him a new trick to use in the show ring, he performs great for a squeeky toy so i've taught him to catch it - he caught on real quick too! So we'll try that out tomorrow at the show

Diva - Poor thing! it sure is hard to live with an Energizer Bunny! Like you none of my previous dogs were this hyper, each one had a very similar upbringing so I was at a loss as to why this one was so nutty. But, as they say, each animal is brought into your life to teach you something (and boy am I learning!)

[Diva]

Diva - Poor thing! it sure is hard to live with an Energizer Bunny! Like you none of my previous dogs were this hyper, each one had a very similar upbringing so I was at a loss as to why this one was so nutty. But, as they say, each animal is brought into your life to teach you something (and boy am I learning!)

Ah well, she'll grow up and then I'll probably miss the excitement, LOL. We've had a few small breakthroughs this week so I'm feeling a bit more optimistic. I just wish I had that much energy.