Mum to Emma Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 My whippet Bobby has been on 5mg/day of prednil for over two weeks. I'm concerned with how anxious he's become - shaking, tense, rapid breathing. Melbourne had it's first sign of Spring today so I bathed the dogs. Normally he goes crazy afterwards (as dogs do :D ), bouncing around the livingroom. But today he just huddled in his bed, shivering. I'll be phoning the vet on Monday, but as prednisolone has "panting" and "restlessness" listed as 2 side effects at the PetsPlace website, could the drug be the cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueM Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) That seems a big dose for a dog, I am a adult weighing around 60kgs and take 5mgs a day. Ignore that did a bit of googling and it isnt that high it seems :-) Edited September 13, 2008 by varicool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny123 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Ditto to what varicool said. I'm around 60kg and take 5mg a day - so for a little whippet, it seems a high dose. I had a 67kg GSD/Newfoundland cross that exhibited the same symptoms after two days on 25mgs. The vet got him down to 5mgs. I think your boy needs a lasser dose for his body size. Has the vet given you a plan for slow reduction of the dose? You can't just stop corticosteroids outright, the dose needs to be slowly reduced to hopefully zero. Best wishes for a speedy recovery from whatever ails Bobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 (edited) Dose of prednisolone/ cortisone/ macrolone tends to be 1-2mg/kg of body weight over 12 hours. I currently have a 75kg dog currently on 160mg a day. Most dogs tend to be a bit perkier on cortisone. You should have also been told that there will be polydipsia/ polyuria when on cortisone (ie excessive thirst/ urinating) so you need to make sure there is plenty of water around. Some dogs will also experience an increased appetite. What is the cortisone for? Benny made an excellent point - DO NOT under any circumstances play around/ alter/ stop the cortisone except on your vets advice. Cortisone MUST be tapered off slowly. Another thing to be careful of - keep pup at home and away from parks, other dogs etc - cortisone suppresses the immune system and thus the dog may be more prone to infections etc Edited September 13, 2008 by Danois Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumosmum Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 I have had dogs on prednisolone and they do get prescribed higher doses than the usual human dose. None of mine have had any bad reactions while being on the medication. But, If these symptoms have only started since being on the steroids, I would definitely be speaking to the vet. I have taken cortisone many times myself, but once was prescribed a different type to what I usually had. I had similar symptoms to what you have described and it was horrible. I don't know if dogs can have the same effect as I had, but it was the most shocking feeling. Even so, I still had to slowly reduce the dose over a period of about a week or so. I hope that Bobby is feeling better very soon. If the symptoms are constant, maybe you could call an emergency vet and make an inquiry over the phone for peace of mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum to Emma Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 Thanks for your replies. He's on it for (what the vet assumes) is an allergy which caused fluid to collect under his jaw and neck. The prednil definitely fixed it, and after a week we tried to cut back the dose to one tablet every two days but the swelling immediately returned. So it was back to the full dose. I'll speak to the vet on Monday to see if we can move to half a tablet every day (a reduced dose but same frequency). He is a slightly anxious whippet, but his behaviour at the moment is very much out of character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shekhina Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Only thing I can say is follow the instructions carefully to come off it...I go through the worst withdrawal from those things if I don't come of very, very slow and I would hate for a dog to go through that :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum to Emma Posted September 13, 2008 Author Share Posted September 13, 2008 I took Bobby to the emergency clinic overnight because he became very agitated - trembling, breathing rapidly. The vet said he had abdominal pain which would be either gastric or pancreatic. He has no sign of diarrhea or vomiting, so I'm worried it may be the pancreas (a side effect of the prednil). She gave him a painkiller injection and at the moment he's sleeping calmly, without the rapid breathing. Will ring my vet today to see if they can get some blood tests done asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 They just gave him painkiller and sent him home????????????????? I would have thought Abdominal pain to that extent needed checking out .... Painkillers can mask worsening symptoms poor little boy- he is in the wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueM Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Thanks for your replies.He's on it for (what the vet assumes) is an allergy which caused fluid to collect under his jaw and neck. The prednil definitely fixed it, and after a week we tried to cut back the dose to one tablet every two days but the swelling immediately returned. So it was back to the full dose. I'll speak to the vet on Monday to see if we can move to half a tablet every day (a reduced dose but same frequency). He is a slightly anxious whippet, but his behaviour at the moment is very much out of character. We had a whippet with exactly the same symptoms, did they drain the fluid?, our dog simply couldnt wear a dog coat at all and it cured him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 In humans it can cause people to have psychosis / go mad so there is a good chance that in animals it can do the same thing. I was looking after a pug, 6kg, that had stomach lymphoma and he was on 5mg twice a day so 10mg. Prednisalone is used as an alternative to chemo. I really would be look for an alternative to cortisone. If what he has is presumed to be an allergy then maybe you could try antihistamine tablets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danois Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Yes pred is used as in some cancer cases and is not an alternative to chemo - it is a 'chemo' drug and would be used in conjunction with other drugs. However its other main (and more common) use is with immune based conditions. If a dog's conditin is linked to its immune system then this is the drug - an anti-histamine will not do the job. Just because a side effect occurs in people does not mean it occurs in dogs - it is hard to find anything which details psychoses in dogs from cortisone. It should also be remembered that the main side effects from cortisone come from long term use - not just a week on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 (edited) I think the vet would have prescribed the cortisone for its anti inflammatory properties. Cortisone IS an anti inflammatory at low doses (generally anything up to about 1mg/kg is anti inflammatory, any higher is immuno suppressive), and is mostly used in veterinary medicine for it's anti inflammatory properties. Cortisone works differently to non-steroidal anti inflamms, too, so its not just a matter of giving those instead. Obviously cortisone is not a drug you want to be using long term, but at low doses, dogs and cats can and do cope well on it long term. Giving a routine course of it is unlikely to cause negative side effects. So often dogs have reactions to things that results in an ongoing cycle, where the skin/area is inflamed and becomes itchy, so they lick and chew it, making it more inflamed and therefore more itchy. A simple course of cortisone can break the cycle and allow the area to heal and not be a problem any further. I think the symptoms are something you should discuss with your vet. They sound very much like symptoms of pain. Edited September 14, 2008 by stormie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Yes pred is used as in some cancer cases and is not an alternative to chemo - it is a 'chemo' drug and would be used in conjunction with other drugs. I ment that if people don't chose to do chemo with thier dogs with cancer prednisolone is used as an alternate therapy that will buy the dog a little bit of extra time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum to Emma Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 I think the symptoms are something you should discuss with your vet. They sound very much like symptoms of pain. You are right. I look him to the emergency clinic early Sunday morning. He has acute gastric pain which returns whenever the painkiller injections lose effect. They've run a lot of tests and have found a shadow on the right front chest, which is probably the cause of the lymph drainage problem. He'll have an ultrasound today. They don't know the connection between the gastric pain and the chest swelling. The clinic has been very upfront with what all this will cost, but I'm not worried about that - I'm not going to let him go without doing everything that can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Good on you for hanging in their. Please keep us all informed with how he goes. Lots of good vibes coming your way. Jill Marks Oakway Whippets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Poor baby. Hope you can find out what the shadow is and fix it. Reading your original post again his symptoms do sound more like the effects of pain then cortisone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mum to Emma Posted September 15, 2008 Author Share Posted September 15, 2008 Thanks for all your good wishes Bobby is home now. Somewhat zoned out by the opiate based painkillers. He's booked in with the internal medicine specialist tomorrow, hopefully for an MRI, which my vet said should show what's going on with the pancreas AND the lymphatic system. Even though the blood tests didn't detect pancreatitis, he seemed to think that pancreatic inflammation was the most likely cause of the pain, and that this was brought on by the prednisolone. Bobby's legs are a bit puffy tonight, which my vet said is probably another part of the lymphatic circulation problem. He's been in a cage for about 36 hours, so without exercise his legs are swollen. Hopefully by this time tomorrow we'll have a better idea of what's going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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