Second Puppy Questions!

[Dame Aussie]

Hi all,

OH and I initially wanted to get two puppies at once but were advised to only get one and get the other a bit later, so we had enough time to bond with and teach the first and she would act like a role model to the second.

Our 14 week old aussie shepherd is gorgeous and everything's going really well, I just have a couple of questions to help me decide when we should get the second pup.

1) What age is good to bring a new puppy into the home? We would like to do it when our girl is around 6 months or so.

2) What is the best way to introduce the two?

3)The new pup will be a staffy, any particular experience with staffy pups and how the two breeds will get along? (OH has had a staffy before so we know theyre pretty hectic )

Any info or experiences would be great!

Thanks

[SwaY]

I reccomend wait until your pup is 12 months old

enables you to train it

It's bones to mature

and for you to work to what your breed requires

exercise, food, lifesyle. etc

Many MANY breeders will nto sell you two pups at once, nor until the first pup is 12 months old.

[Guest june.andnovas]

What about in the wild where pups grow up with their litter mates? Wouldn't they do damage to each other, so what is the difference to raising two pet puppies together at home compared to wild pups growing up in a litter of many? Tell me if I don't make any sense!!

Are the parent dogs there to keep them from playing too rough?

Just something I have been thinking about recently.

I've decided to just have one pup for now and then when my giant grows up and I'm hopefully living away from Perth (on lots and lots of land in Tasmania) ... get another dog or two!

[Kavik]

I think it's better to have an age gap between dogs. This allows you to get past the puppy stage with the first one (teething, toilet training, basic obedience) and also two dogs that are close in age may be more likely to fight later on especially if the same sex. I actually think 2 years is a good age gap.

[ZEPING]

i wanted to do the exact same thing you wanted to do i though that it would be awesome to have 2 puppies to keep each other company

but the more research that i actually did i found that the become doggie! meaning they will get attched with each other and be therefore harder to train, less affectionate as it finds the other puppy more exciting,

1) What age is good to bring a new puppy into the home? We would like to do it when our girl is around 6 months or so.

usally around 12 to 18 months when the first puppy has matured

2) What is the best way to introduce the two?

slowly have a barrier at first so they can see and smell each other first,also make them meet in a neutral environment so one doesn't become to territorial , and have yourself handling your first dog so they dont become jelous (yeaha i didnt know they did either)

[SwaY]

What about in the wild where pups grow up with their litter mates? Wouldn't they do damage to each other, so what is the difference to raising two pet puppies together at home compared to wild pups growing up in a litter of many? Tell me if I don't make any sense!!

Damage happens in the wild aswell, yet no one pays their vet bills

Add to that any injured dog/animal will be picked on by others, and eventually eaten.

[leopuppy04]

I actually would venture to say - not until your current pup is 18mths - 2yrs.

YOU need longer than 6mths to bond with your pup. You also need time to train and socialise this puppy properly. A dog is not properly trained at 6mths old.

If you socialise your aussie well and it's quite accomodating of other dogs - it's probably not going to be *too* much of a hassle to introduce the two dogs together. Make it positive for both dogs to be in the company of each other and also a positive experience for BOTH dogs when one is getting attention etc

Your dogs will still be very close if they have 2yrs between them... there is no rush :D

Just think - the reason we often advise against getting 2 pups at once is simply because they a) bond too closely to each other and b) it's twice the training...

How much easier would it be if you have a 2yr old beautifully behaved aussie before you introduce another baby into the household.

[ell&diesel]

2) What is the best way to introduce the two?

slowly have a barrier at first so they can see and smell each other first,also make them meet in a neutral environment so one doesn't become to territorial , and have yourself handling your first dog so they dont become jelous (yeaha i didnt know they did either)

Good point about meeting on neutral territory but I'm going to disagree about meeting through a barrier.

In my experience (socialising my DA Staffy x Bull Terrier), fences/barriers create a massive amount of tension. There have been situations where Diesel's met a dog through a fence (an arranged meeting, everybody, not just a random neighbourhood dog) and both dogs have gone berko because they can't carry out all their normal "meeting" rituals such as bum-sniffing and posturing. After taking Diesel for a walk around the block and then letting both dogs re-meet in the same open space, they were able to meet eachother in a civil manner.

In addition to the frustration of not being able to carry out their normal rituals, I think dogs also get frustrated when meeting another dog through a fence because they can't physically get to what they want - they can't meet or play with the other dog and thus get tense and frustrated, escalating possibilities of a scrap.

Aussie 3, when you get a second dog, make sure you've exercised them both (obviously no strenuous exercise for a young puppy - just playing will suffice) so that they're tired and calm. Take both dogs to a completely neutral piece of territory - somewhere that neither dog has been before. Keep them both on-lead and let them interact freely, with no leash-pulling by you or the dog. Pulling on the lead will cause the dog's body language to change and in some situations can cause a fight. Keep an eye on their behaviour at all times and if play gets too rough (or if you can tell that something is about to go wrong), step in and separate the two.

Of course, I'll second what others have said here and suggest you wait until your current pup is at least 12 months old before you introduce a new one.

Staffies are a pretty hectic breed, yes They can tend to play rough and some are known to have a few dog-to-dog issues regardless of socialisation, so make sure you choose carefully. Also, it would be best for you to get a staffy pup of the opposite sex to the pup you have now, as dogs of opposite sexes tend to get along much better than those of the same sex.

Let us know how you go :D

[Miss B]

I'm not trying to go against the advice that's been given so far, but I just wanted to say that I bought my two Cav boys at the same time and raised both pups together and have never had any dramas whatsoever My mum also bought two Cav puppies, raised them together, and they are very happy well adjusted dogs these days.

However that is definately a bit different to buying a puppy of one breed and then several months later introducing a new, unrelated puppy.

[leopuppy04]

I'm not trying to go against the advice that's been given so far, but I just wanted to say that I bought my two Cav boys at the same time and raised both pups together and have never had any dramas whatsoever My mum also bought two Cav puppies, raised them together, and they are very happy well adjusted dogs these days.

However that is definately a bit different to buying a puppy of one breed and then several months later introducing a new, unrelated puppy.

Miss B - there's no saying it can't be done but it takes a heck of a lot of work.

So - are either your boys or your mum's cavies happy to be apart from each other? What happens if you separate them from each other?

[poodlefan]

Buy two pups together.. lose two old adult dogs in quick succession. That can be heartbreaking.

You also tend to have issues with the puppies bonding more closely to each other than to humans in the family.

You won't find too many trainers recommending pups be aged more closely than 12 months apart.

Dogs equal in age, size and gender also may tend to have issues with establishing who is dominant. Fighting can result.

Your first puppy may be an angel.. what happens if No. 2 is a demon who teaches puppy one the ropes?

14 week old puppies tend to be quite easy. Wait till she hits adolescence and you may have cause to reconsider how easy it is!

Edited September 12, 2008 by poodlefan

[My Mad GSP]

We got 2 puppies (Labs 1 girl 1 boy) at the same time. They are wonderful company for each other but we have made sure we taught them to spend time independantly of each other. This has prevented seperation anxiety from being apart from each other and allows us to spend 'one on one' time with each pup. It is a lot more work as we have to train 2 pups at once and we take each one to dog club on different days (alternating weeks). Again to teach independance from each other and to teach each dog that some times they have to stay home alone and to have one on one time with each pup and for pups to learn to play with other dogs with and without each other. They are nearly 7 months old now and this has worked well and we have strong bonds with both pups. It has been a lot of work but we are seeing great results for our effort. We also have an older 4 year old dog who has been a fantastic big sister and helps in teaching them doggie manners.

I would not change our decision as they are the best dogs but it really is a lot of work and think earlier advice on leaving a 18month to 2 year gap between dogs is good advice.

[ZEPING]

yeaha thats a good point Ell&diese ill pay that

its just that i find when they meeting for the first time one usually is more dominant than the other and to tell you the truth its usually the older dog then the puppy and i dont want to frighten the poor thing the first time round as there very impressionable at such a young age i dont want him to be dog aggressive??

when there more comfortable then i would then acctually allow them to interact with each other and even then under my hawk like supervision

[Miss B]

Miss B - there's no saying it can't be done but it takes a heck of a lot of work.

So - are either your boys or your mum's cavies happy to be apart from each other? What happens if you separate them from each other?

I can't speak for my mum, 'cos her boys are always together and she's never had any need to seperate them.

But mine are fine when seperated. There have been plenty of occasions where I have taken one to work with me but not the other... and they are both fine. No destructive behaviour, no barking, no whining or crying.

[badboyz]

I agree with the minimum 12mth gap. I would also add that 6 - 9mth olds tend to still think and play like puppies and will often be too rough for an 8wk old baby. Between about 9 - 12mths (or longer depending on breed) they are teenagers who may see the newcomer as competition. Around 12 -18mths they have usually matured enough to realize that they need to be more gentle when playing with a baby, and the baby will more likely respect the adult dogs postition.

[TrinaJ]

We have put in our order for our next dog - by the time we get him, Jett will be 13 months old and would have already bonded with us. I am also a stay at home mum so I can spend 100% of my time with them.

Generally the reason 'most' people are against 2 puppies (and lots of breeders wont sell 2 of their puppies to one family) is because the puppies tend to bond together rather that with the us, that and the potential problem of training.

There is an article called Double Trouble, raising two puppies at once that you may find interesting.

DOUBLE TROUBLE.......Raising Two Puppies At Once!

by Nancy Vollmer

You couldn't resist. They were totally adorable six-week-old balls of fluff romping and scuffling on the breeder's carpeting. So you agreed to take Molly and Jasper home at eight weeks, and now they're romping, scuffling, eliminating, chewing, and digging on your carpeting!

You had the best of intentions. Not only would they keep each other company during your long hours at work, but you and your spouse would each have your own dog. And it didn't seem like two little puppies would be much more trouble to take care of than one.

Unfortunately, the operative word is "trouble." You soon discover that two pups seem to make not twice, but eight times the mess as one! It's as if they "feed" off each other's energy.

Bonding

But the real problem is not the constant chaos involved with trying to keep up with two perpetual motion machines, but the realization that since the dogs have each other, they really don't need you! They're much more interested in roughhousing and running together than the ball games and long walks that you planned on enjoying with them.

Training is a nightmare. When you and your spouse try to separate the twosome for their daily lessons, they cry and bark and carry on trying to get back together. Even standing on your head, you can't get their attention for a moment. What can you do to get things back on track and have these pups grow into the wonderful companions you wanted?

The underlying problem is bonding. Since the pups were left alone together while you were away and never separated when you were around, their primary bond is with each other and not with you and the other family members! Never having been separated, they haven't had the opportunity to develop a closer bond with humans.

Here are some tips for managing two pups that will maximize their chances at becoming great companions.

First, the pups should sleep separately. Approximately two weeks after they come home with you, they should be trained to sleep in separate crates. You can use the den-training procedure in SuperPuppy.

Separation

But don't combine the stress of a new home with the stress of being separated right off. Start out by placing their crates side-by-side. Gradually move the crates apart so that eventually they are comfortable sleeping in different rooms. (This also prevents the development of separation anxiety problems in the future should they suddenly have to be separated due to an accident or illness.)

Once they are able to sleep in separate rooms, start separating them for short periods during the day. Start while you're at home, perhaps with naps in their crates. Build up the time so that they're calm and comfortable when apart for several hours. (Ideally, they should be confined in separate areas in exercise pens during your long absences. Although this may not be possible, it's a good way to prevent the dogs from becoming overly dependent on each other's presence.) They can share water bowls but try feeding them separately.

From the very start take them outside separately as well as together for short excursions around the neighborhood, car rides, and socialization visits.

Training Tips

Enroll them in puppy class, but keep them apart as much as possible during the class. At first do the puppy class homework while separated. Then, once they know the lessons, bring them together and practice. Teach them to pay attention to you, even though they're around each other. As a reward for working with you willingly, allow them to romp briefly together between lessons.

The pups will learn their names faster if you use their names each time you interact with them. In the beginning, names should always be said in a happy tone of voice in a rewarding context such as when praising, giving meals or teaching a command that will be rewarded with praise, petting, and a treat. Once they're a bit older, and respond to their names, you can use a name before reprimanding of one of the pups without involving the other.

Be the Leader

Exercise good leadership. Don't let one pup become excessively dominant. Allow them to establish their relationship, but intervene if one puppy becomes overly domineering. (See SuperPuppy pg. 18) Give each puppy equal time and attention, and try not to favor one over the other.

To make sure each puppy responds equally to all family members, everyone who's able should participate in the training and care taking of both pups.

As you can see, raising two puppies together to their maximum potential is considerably more work than just bringing up one. But it's still a small price to pay for two super puppies!