Broken Elbow

[Flaves]

Thank you for your kind words "I Has Flava!" , "Erny" and "Ari".

I'm so sad & feel for my Rosie - she's been through a lot of pain & I'm not particularly in the mood to listen to reason ...

That is fair enough Shoshana, when you can think clearly then tackle it.

[Danois]

I am sure it was an accident and really no one is at fault (although dont get me started on my real opinion on doggy day care free for alls) but at the same time they surely have insurance for just this type of thing. I know I do as a groomer...

*sigh*

Public liability is for "at fault" incidents. I doubt an insurer would accept a claim in these type of circumstances and I wonder if they would even be able to get cover for injuries to dogs at play.

If you take up a request for compensation with the day care, I suspect the first thing they will say is "sorry, we are not responsible and you signed a waiver to this effect."

[Ari]

okay fine they wont have it. That's all you had to say

[Ari]

Danois you obviously know a lot about insurance so do you mind if I ask a question? Hopefully not so here goes.

My policy has the following paragraph... actually this is 2 years old so I will have to double check this years one...but anyway...

"The following endorsement is active for this cover:

We will include cover for claims under Section 7 for damage to property, where such property consists of any animal. arising directly or indirectly out of or caused by beauty treatment prescribed or administered by or on behalf of you"

Would doggy daycare places not have a similar clause or are you saying this sort of clause would not cover you for a dog accidently breaking its leg?

Edited September 7, 2008 by Ari

[Vizsla]

I would be speaking with the DDC again and finding out some more information.

This is a serious injury. I understand very well that accidents happen, sometimes we are unable to prevent them.

This is a pet care business that provides service to pet owners. Not sure what the laws are over in SA, but in Victoria DDC must be registered with their local council as a domestic animal business, and comply with the relevant code of practice and Domestic Animals Act. They must also have public liability insurance.

Just like a dog training establishment, If another dog attacked your dog, the training establishment would be reponsible for the cost of any veterinary treatment, although you would hope that the other owner would pay them. Because it occured whilst they were providing a service at their premises and under their care.

Anther example would be, if your dog was at DDC or boarding and it ingested poison or was bitten by snake, they would be responsible for the cost of veterinary treatment as the animal was under their care.

I normally wouldn't encourage this type of attitude, but this is a seroius injury and pet care professionals who are providing a responsible and professional service must have public liability insurance for this purpose.

Good luck and hope Rosie is feeling better!

p.s I have seen and met many dogs who have coped exceptionally well with 3 legs.

Edited September 7, 2008 by Vizsla

[Danois]

Danois you obviously know a lot about insurance so do you mind if I ask a question? Hopefully not so here goes.

My policy has the following paragraph... actually this is 2 years old so I will have to double check this years one...but anyway...

"The following endorsement is active for this cover:

We will include cover for claims under Section 7 for damage to property, where such property consists of any animal. arising directly or indirectly out of or caused by beauty treatment prescribed or administered by or on behalf of you"

Would doggy daycare places not have a similar clause or are you saying this sort of clause would not cover you for a dog accidently breaking its leg?

Each policy will be specific for the industry but I would say that your policy has that clause as you are diretly handling the animals and the damage relates to what you are doing - say there is a burn to the dog, or it breaks a leg as it falls off the table.

They may have a clause to a similar effect but someone putting their dog into day care would have signed the waiver saying all risk, no responsibility and waiving any rights.

A business would do this as a) they would have to pay the excess on claims and b) more claims = higher premium = higher cost of running business = higher fees = customers unhappy at paying higher fees.

Just like a dog training establishment, If another dog attacked your dog, the training establishment would be reponsible for the cost of any veterinary treatment, although you would hope that the other owner would pay them. Because it occured whilst they were providing a service at their premises and under their care.

Anther example would be, if your dog was at DDC or boarding and it ingested poison or was bitten by snake, they would be responsible for the cost of veterinary treatment as the animal was under their care.

1. I have looked over a number of application forms and many of them require you to indemnify the organisation against any medical costs caused by a dog attack - ie you will claim from the offending dogs owner and not the organisation. It may be different if there was a failure to adequately supervise or carry out behaviour tests prior to admission.

All the forms I read had acknowledgements from clients to sign noting that there were inherent risks in having dogs in a cage free environment.

I doubt a snake bite would be covered as that would be a freak accident over which the facility had no control. Ingested poison could be included if it was caused by the organisation's negligence - ie leaving it about.

[madredeperros]

I hope she gets better on her own but do not panic if they can't save her leg. Dogs DO cope very well with three legs & my own girl, Allira lost her leg in July after breaking her elbow landing on the staircase wrong. There was major nerve damage & the elbow was crushed so we thought the best thing for her was amputation. See that happily smiling little red girl in my siggy? She doesn't even care that she's missing a leg. She can run, wrestle, dig & jump & she's only 6 months old & 9kg.

Here she is wrestling with her 1/2 sister Tharraa

This is only a couple weeks after the surgery

Good luck with your poor girl but as I said, do not worry if that leg has to be removed. We worry about it more than they do. Sending lots of to you & her

[Charles Kuntz]

Young dogs can have a defect in calcification of the intercondylar region (between the two sides of the elbow joint) that can predispose them to breaking with very little trauma. I have had dogs fracture them after jumping 30 cm off a curb. It is very common. I have repaired about 60 of these fractures, all identical. If that is the case, then you MUST do surgery because the break is within the joint surface. If you don't fix it, your dog will NOT regain functional use of the leg. The other type of fracture of the elbow of young dogs is a break of the olecranon (the funny bone). These WILL NOT heal on there own either because of the constant pull of the triceps muscle.

Unfortunately what I am telling you is that:

1. There are very few fractures of the elbow of young dogs that can be managed without surgery.

2. It is common for puppies to fracture their elbows with very little trauma.

Any chance you could photograph the x-ray and post it so that I can tell you what kind of fracture it is? Sorry to be so bleak, but these are common, they require surgery. WIth surgery, they usually do really well. Without surgery, they usually do really poorly.

Please let me know if I can help.

Charles

[ellz]

Some years ago, my the 17 week old Staffordshire Bull Terrier puppy shattered his elbow in a freak accident. At the time, the options given to me were surgery or......(insert the "or" yourself).

He had the surgery and sailed through it. Pins, plates and screws were inserted. He was on crate only restrictions for 8 weeks and then gradual exercise after that. Once the fracture had healed, the option was given to either leave the hardware intact or remove it. I opted to leave it there for further support for growing (rapidly) bones.

I never regretted the surgery and he made a complete recovery afterwards. In fact, his recovery was so complete that only those who knew the hardware were there could detect it. You could barely see the scars and his movement was as good as it had been previously.

At the age of 10 months, he made his show debut and won a Specialty Best In Show from the Puppy Class under a South African Breed Specialist who was astounded when told what the dog had been through to make it that far.

I'm so sorry that the accident happened, but trust in your vets and let them help you to make the right decisions for your girl. But above all don't beat yourself up because it could have happened anywhere, whether you were with her or not.

[LoremIpsum]

Golly. I'm really sorry to hear this story and hope Rosie is comfortable. You must be devastated — understandably — I certainly would be in your position.

I think it is probably worth finding out if the day care place has any sort of responsibility — why don't you contact the SA office of consumer affairs who'll at least be able to give you a bit of free advice. Others on this are probably right in saying you're unlikely to get anything out of them, but I think it would do you good to talk it through with an expert so you can understand what their liability is. I once had cause to ring consumer affairs. In the end, I decided prosecution wasn't worth the hassle, but the outrage of a qualified third party helped me to deal emotionally with the discrimination I'd experienced. In other words, I really needed someone else to say, yes, you were wronged. Obviously, your situation is different, and perhaps this was an awful but unavoidable accident. Charles Kuntz's post certainly would indicate so. But it is perfectly normal for you to be upset and looking around for something or someone to attach that anger to.

I'm rambling, but I think my basic point is that your feelings are perfectly normal. However, it seems from what others are saying you're unlikely to get compensation. So perhaps it's time to make like a Buddhist and let your anger go.

It's a terrible thing that happened and I hope Rosie gets the best treatment and you end up experiencing the best outcome. Good luck to you both and a special shmooch for Rosie!

[wire]

I have also taken my pup to a day-care centre where we do obedience. On the last occasion he came home limping and now after 4 weeks of vet care and confinement he seems on the mend.

Very sorry to hear of your pup's ordeal. The poor little girl.

You're welcome to pm me if you wish to exchange info.

[wire]

PS: I'm from Adelaide too.

[Tammi]

Poor Rosie! While I hope for your sake that her elbow heals up nicely. I can also reassure you that a three legged dog copes just fine. My Belgian Terv was put down last year. But for the last three years of her life she was able to run around and enjoy herself. She was 3 when she was diagnosed with HD and after various surgeries she ended up spending nearly a full 12 months in a baby pen with only supervised walks. I think it was about two days after her surgery and she was out running around confidently again.

How is Rosie coping with having the cast on?

I can understand how you feel, in regards to your precious baby being hurt in someone elses care. But chin up, with a little rest (ok and possibly surgery) she should be back to her bouncy happy self ^_^ Good luck

[Shoshana]

How is Rosie coping with having the cast on?

I can understand how you feel, in regards to your precious baby being hurt in someone elses care. But chin up, with a little rest (ok and possibly surgery) she should be back to her bouncy happy self ^_^ Good luck

Thank you Tammi

Rosie is on anti-inflamatory medication till the end of the week & it makes her dopey - so she sleeps a lot. I'm missing having my puppy follow me around everywhere.

Also, she has become closer to me as a result of being handicapped - she realises how much I love her & trusts me more...

I've decided to go ahead with the surgery - this morning I'll be arranging referral for an orthopedic surgeon.

[Charles Kuntz]

Good luck. I hope it goes well.

Charles

[Shoshana]

Good luck. I hope it goes well.

Charles

Thank you so much for your support Charles. We are really lucky to have someone like you here on the DOLF.

Your advice made me realize that hoping for the best was not going to be enough to save Rosie's leg. It's been a tough decision for me, as I'm saving money for a new car & a holiday - but I don't think I could live with myself knowing I haven't done everything I could to help my dog.

[wire]

Hi Shoshana, how is Rosie today?

Did you hear back from the day care centre? I hope they did the right thing here.

All the best with the op, please keep us informed.

[Akitaowner]

dogs do 'just break' under some circumstances - a friends labradoodle jumped off the bed and broke his elbow same deal...

i think the chance of her losing the leg are fairly remote? ...

[Golden Rules]

Good luck. I hope it goes well.

Charles

Thank you so much for your support Charles. We are really lucky to have someone like you here on the DOLF.

Your advice made me realize that hoping for the best was not going to be enough to save Rosie's leg. It's been a tough decision for me, as I'm saving money for a new car & a holiday - but I don't think I could live with myself knowing I haven't done everything I could to help my dog.

Well done to you Shoshana New cars get old very quickly and holidays just become a memory - a well loved dog should be with you for years and give you more love and joy than a new car or holiday ever would.

Do let us all know how things go.:cool:

[Jed]

I am so sorry to hear this. Too sad

A 5 week old cav pup broke her elbow while she was in the puppy pen with 3 siblings. The pen was safe, there was nothing to jump off. We could only conclude that another pup ran into her. Surgery was done, and it was found there was no fault with the bone.

My only advice is to have the operation done by a good ortho. surgeon. It certainly makes a difference.

My four month old pup went out to the toilet last night, for about 10 minutes, and came back with an obvious hock injury.

today the hock and the inside of the thigh are twice normal size. The vet thought it was a fracture of the growth plate, but that is not showing on x-ray. Should have more information tomorrow.

Things happen very easily with pups - although I must say, in all the time I have been breeding, these are the only two serious injuries.

I would also check to see if the business has some sort of insurance for that. They probably can''t get it, but it may be worth asking.