Cruciate Ligament Advice

[westiemum]

Thanks Poodlefan - yes I think so and agree - would be good to hear from anyone else who might know/have an opinion - as the logical conclusion if caging predisposes to injury of this sort through poor muscle development then its another reason for legislating against those evil pfs.... there... I've said it!

Cheers,

Westiemum

Slightly off topic, but I was just thinking... anyone know if there is any relationship between caged dogs and/or poor leg muscle development and/or ACL tears/ruptures??

I've long been suspicious that my boys history (weight difficulties aside), possibly predisposed him to a ruptured ACL and/or arthritis ... would make an interesting research project...

Just a thought...

Cheers,

Westiemum

There is a definite link between obesity and ACL rupture. I'll defer to the experts but I'd have thought lack of muscle bulk/tone would place additonal stress on the ligament.

[Staffyluv]

I totally agree with the wait and see approach - if I had listened to the first vet (our regular vet was away on holidays) our lad would have been operated on a few days after being diagnosed.

He does take supplements (not just for the leg)

Fish oil 1000mg a day

A blend of chondriton and glucosamine (you get it from the chemist)

He used to take 1000mg of vitamin C but we recently changed to Ester C and he has 3mg a day in 2L of water (which he drinks over the course of the day).

There are a couple of other things he takes but they are not related to the leg (he also has MCT and a thyroid condtions from the chemo)

Wishing all the limping dogs a quick and pain free recovery.

[PepitoVFR]

Glad this thread’s been useful to you; it’s certainly been a big help to me. It’s interesting that your vet recommended surgery straight away, given the input/advice given so far on this thread. Anyway, good luck with your little one’s recovery, hope she's back to full strength in no time.

Thanks Daphne

I got a second opinion and the vet has suggested the "wait and see" approach for 4-6 weeks.

For now she's been put on daily chewable Rimadyl and weekly injections of Pentosan.

Will keep updating & monitoring this thread

Wishing all the limping dogs a quick and pain free recovery.

Thanks Staffyluv

(edit) Just did a quick lookup of these drugs:

http://www.vet.terrigal.net.au/tv-tips.htm

Pentosan is a relatively new treatment for arthritis that makes a significant improvement in eight out of ten dogs. Pentosan is not a cortisone has no side effects and works by restoring the joint cartilage and helps to increase lubrication in the joint. 80% of all dogs treated improve significantly, some becoming like puppies again.

The effects generally last for 6-12 months. Pentosan is best given before winter every year when arthritis is most prevalent.

Pentosan is given as a course of injections once weekly for four weeks. The cost covers your consultation fee plus drug costs for the first injection then just drug costs only for the remaining 3 injections.

It often takes up to four weeks for the Pentosan injections to work. We generally give a course of Rimadyl tablets at the first visit. Rimadyl is a very effective anti inflammatory drug with a very low incidence of side effects. Rimadyl will give your pet immediate relief while we are waiting for the Pentosan injections to work. We generally find that dogs who receive Pentosan and Rimadyl do better that those who receive Pentosan alone, especially in the early stages of the treatment

.

Sounds ok to me

Edited September 11, 2008 by morita

[PepitoVFR]

Well Katie goes in for her last Pentosan injection on Tuesday and there's been no improvement at all with her leg.

So as much as I'd wanted to avoid it, looks like surgery is going to be the only option

[MalteseLuna]

My parents dog, a 9 year old malt x shih has god LP in both hind legs and she had to have surgery early this year on her Cruciate Ligament - my parents were avoiding the surgery on her knees and as a result she completely severed her Ligament She was in pain and couldn't even squat properly or walk short distances. She had surgery on one leg (corrected knee and ligament replaced by nylon ) and she is back to her normal happy self My parents definitely think that the surgery was worthwhile - but then there wasn't a "wait and see" option for her because the knees were so bad and the ligament was completely severed

[PepitoVFR]

My parents dog, a 9 year old malt x shih has god LP in both hind legs and she had to have surgery early this year on her Cruciate Ligament - my parents were avoiding the surgery on her knees and as a result she completely severed her Ligament She was in pain and couldn't even squat properly or walk short distances. She had surgery on one leg (corrected knee and ligament replaced by nylon ) and she is back to her normal happy self My parents definitely think that the surgery was worthwhile - but then there wasn't a "wait and see" option for her because the knees were so bad and the ligament was completely severed

Good to hear that the surgery worked out great.

Have to admit I'm a little nervous about it because this will be her first operation and with any general anaesthetic (I assume they need to put her completely under) theres always that risk.

Anyway, will be seeing the Vet tonight so see what she says.

[PepitoVFR]

Ok, she's booked in for surgery for Friday week.

I know I shouldn't have :rolleyes: but I googled the subject and found this:

http://www.thepetcenter.com/sur/ACL.html

[jans]

Good luck, Morita. My Malt boy had his operated on last Thursday, and the biggest problem I have now is keeping the monkey quiet. The littlies recover so very quickly.

[PepitoVFR]

Good luck, Morita. My Malt boy had his operated on last Thursday, and the biggest problem I have now is keeping the monkey quiet. The littlies recover so very quickly.

Thanks Jans.

She's back at home today

[Staffyluv]

Oh poor babies.

We were warned that if one goes then the other one usually goes within 18 months - well we have just had the other cruciate ligament go (last week). Fortunately once again, it is only a partial tear and the vet was so impressed with the way the first one has healed without surgery, he is giving me 6-8 weeks to use the same treatments I did last time before he makes any decision to operate.

It was only a week ago, yesterday and he is already putting weight on it - fingers crossed for another full recovery without surgery.

Good luck to all the pooches having surgery, I hope they all recover quickly.

[jans]

Poor little mite, Morita. When mine had the bicket on, all I got was a filty dirty look. Your's just looks sad..

My surgeon recommneded joint guard - did yours too??

[PepitoVFR]

Poor little mite, Morita. When mine had the bicket on, all I got was a filty dirty look. Your's just looks sad..

My surgeon recommneded joint guard - did yours too??

Hmm, no. Though I would have liked to I didnt get a chance to speak to the surgeon after the operation. Maybe I should ask when I return in two weeks to get the stitches removed?

Speaking of stitches, do people see any problem with her licking them? It was too sad seeing her struggling wearing the "Elizabethan collar" especially trying to sleep at night, so I removed it.

She doesn't bite at the stitches only licks them as part of an overall lick of her shaved leg which she seems to do quite a bit.

ps. I put a webcam up so any interested DOL'ers can take a look at her (she'll probably be sleeping when you connect)

http://www.webcam.katie.net.au/

Edited October 13, 2008 by morita

[jans]

I reckon it's worth asking, Morita. It's the glucosamine in it that apparently helps in the prevention of arthritis. I googled joint guard and was happy with what it said, so bought some.

I took his bucket off when I was able to supervise him. He responded really well to me saying NO when he licked his wound. My vet said a bit of a lick was OK but said if I put my hand gently on the wound and it came away moist, then he was licking too much and the bucket/collar had to go back on.

[PepitoVFR]

Thanks Jans, thats good enough for me, I just ordered some Jointguard from Petbarn

[Rottifan]

Just to add something slightly off the topic but may help someone out there. My rotti after xrays and limping on his front leg was found to have elbow displaysia. I tried cartrophen injections, sashas blend, fish oil tabs, glucosamine tabs, joint guard and techniflex but didnt see an improvement, too little too late. Specialist said he was not an option for elbow fusing or plates and instead put him in metacam, gabapentin/neurontin and tramal.

My vet suggested I try accupuncture or alternate therapy for pain relief. I ended up opting for chiropractic work and have learnt that although he has the structural/bone issues, and arthritis, he was limping because his shoulder was "out" and he had a pinched nerve causing him to eventually limp when the pain got too much and xrays dont show nerves apparently.

My boy was weaned off his medication about 5 months ago and now is on nothing and has no limp at all but has adjustments when required if he has a "silly" episode and runs around and hurts himself. AMAZING and very happy he'll see his 8th birthday now as he was at the stage that I was taking his food and water bowl to him!

They are such pain tolerant creatures, good luck to all those limping now - wise decisions and fast recoveries to you all.

[PepitoVFR]

Thanks for sharing Rottifan, glad to hear it ended well

It's four weeks since Katie's operation, the vets at Lort Smith are happy with how it went but seems there's still a long way to go.

She's very reluctant to put any weight on the affected leg and quite happily trots along on three legs only but as the last vet that saw her pointed out, is not any good for her rehabilitation. So very very slow walking, where she does put that leg down, is the way to go.

[Quickasyoucan]

Thanks for sharing Rottifan, glad to hear it ended well

It's four weeks since Katie's operation, the vets at Lort Smith are happy with how it went but seems there's still a long way to go.

She's very reluctant to put any weight on the affected leg and quite happily trots along on three legs only but as the last vet that saw her pointed out, is not any good for her rehabilitation. So very very slow walking, where she does put that leg down, is the way to go.

Morita,

How did you confine your dog post op?

I have been told by my vet that she suspects cruciate degeneration in my 5.5-6 year old staffy x. We are having further diagnostic tests, but my vet is pushing for an operation.

However the kicker for me is my boy is not actually lame, just has clicky knees and I am very reluctant to put him through an op and extensive confinement when he is not currently lame.

Obviously your girl is much smaller than mine (Jake is taller than a staffy and weighs about 18kg). Were you advised to crate her?

What exercise if any are you allowed to do 4 weeks out?

[raz]

Quick, if you find you need to go through with the surgery I would definitely recommend a crate, especially with a lively little terrier. Mine was crated for 6 weeks for an injury. 5 minute walks every 2 hours. He was fine. Definitely ask vet about rehab though.

[Daphne]

Hi Morita,

Glad to hear the surgery appears to have gone well.

We’re at about 8 weeks since Daphne’s initial injury and about 4 weeks since she began her “physio”. We had a similar problem to the one you mention with Katie: she prefers to hop around on three legs, and only puts the weak leg down when on leash and kept at a SLOW pace. Once I picked this up (I was a little slow), I started using a trick where every time she gets a little excited on leash and tries to pick up the pace and switch to three legs, I give a very gentle tug on the leash and she switches back to four. After 3 weeks of this, and very gradually increasing the length of walks, she appears to have picked up quite a bit of strength and now walks with all four down when off leash (around the house etc). I think, with Daphne at least, the process is just as much about teaching her to use/trust the weak leg as building the strength up.

Incidentally, we’ve also been using Joint Guard for two months now.

Good luck with Katie’s recovery! Will be keeping an eye on this thread to hear how it goes.

Rooz.

[PepitoVFR]

Morita,

How did you confine your dog post op?

People advised a crate but I wanted something open on the top (to make the regular pats she enjoys during the day easier )

I think I walked half of Melbourne looking for something suitable but in the end decided on a large 4' x 3' cardboard box with the top cut off and large "peep" holes cut in the sides :cool:

We’re at about 8 weeks since Daphne’s initial injury and about 4 weeks since she began her “physio”.

(snip)

Great to hear that Daphne is progressing nicely.

Katie is at 11 weeks post-injury & 5 weeks post-op, her progress seems slower than yours. She is only very very gradually gaining confidence to use the operated leg. I wish I'd heard of the s-lo-w walk tip sooner

All the best to all limping dogs !

Edited November 17, 2008 by morita