Protein Question

[poochmad]

Henschke's breeder has advised that the kibble he receives should be less than 20% protein. The kibble we are giving Henschke is 42% (Orijien). With the breeder he was getting Advance Puppy Plus, but we found that he would scratch heaps after each meal and had continously 'sloppy' stools. After 2.5 weeks we switched over to Orijien and the scratching has all but stopped. His stools are lovely and firm (you know it's been trouble when you get excited over poo!)

He's a Field Spaniel and is currently 30cm tall and should get up to around 46cm at the shoulder when fully grown.

I'm a bit reluctant to go back to Advance or to another food as this one seems to be agreeing with him.

I should also advise he gets 2 x chicken wings each day and half a sardine mixed with his kibble. He gets 3/4 cup of kibble morning and night.

Can you please advise whether we're giving him too much protein as I don't want to be doing the wrong thing.

Thanks.

Edited September 3, 2008 by poochmad

[Guest Tess32]

There's no right answer - some people think high protein does nothing bad at all, others do.

Personally I think you'll be fine and it is a much better food.

It's important to stick to what the breeder feeds when you get a puppy initially, but after that, it's your choice - they are breeders, not dog nutritionists.

The dog itself is proof he does better on your food than theirs.

[morgan]

There is no single perfect protein level - a lot depends on the individual breed and even bloodlines within that breed, which is why the breeder's advice is so important.

However, with a recent litter, the dam's breeder suggested an RC adult food that she always used, as it had a lower protein level (28%) - the pups still knuckled over at 6 weeks and had to go down to a lower level. They also knuckled over on the Advance Puppy and had bad stools to boot.

Out of sheer desperation we put them on to a mixture based on Great Barko (20% protein) and their knuckles started settling down within 36 hours. They are now a few months old and on a 24% protein plus meat with no knuckle problems whatsoever. This is a breed that matures at 15kgs.

I am used to protein having to be closely monitored for large breeds (skeletal deformities in the wrist at 32%+) but was surprised to find it such an issue in a breed where generations behind the dam had been reared successfully on 28%.

Watch his knuckles and wrists closely - if they remain perfectly normal his body is probably fine with what you are feeding him. If you are worried, add a spoon of dolomite powder each day as this will help keep his bones growing correctly. It corrected our pup that developed the deformed wrist in two days combined with lower protein and we kept him and siblings on it for months to be on the safe side.

[poochmad]

There is no single perfect protein level - a lot depends on the individual breed and even bloodlines within that breed, which is why the breeder's advice is so important.

However, with a recent litter, the dam's breeder suggested an RC adult food that she always used, as it had a lower protein level (28%) - the pups still knuckled over at 6 weeks and had to go down to a lower level. They also knuckled over on the Advance Puppy and had bad stools to boot.

Out of sheer desperation we put them on to a mixture based on Great Barko (20% protein) and their knuckles started settling down within 36 hours. They are now a few months old and on a 24% protein plus meat with no knuckle problems whatsoever. This is a breed that matures at 15kgs.

I am used to protein having to be closely monitored for large breeds (skeletal deformities in the wrist at 32%+) but was surprised to find it such an issue in a breed where generations behind the dam had been reared successfully on 28%.

Watch his knuckles and wrists closely - if they remain perfectly normal his body is probably fine with what you are feeding him. If you are worried, add a spoon of dolomite powder each day as this will help keep his bones growing correctly. It corrected our pup that developed the deformed wrist in two days combined with lower protein and we kept him and siblings on it for months to be on the safe side.

Where can I get dolomite powder? And, can I add it to his food now as a 'just in case', or should I only wait until there's something to worry about?

The breeder did advise that the breed can suffer from collapsed pasterns and to feed sardines to fix. We are already adding sardines to his meal, so am I right in understanding we shouldn't see this problem at all?

How do I know whether his wrists are forming correctly? What signs can I watch out for?

ETA: sorry for all the questions!

Edited September 4, 2008 by poochmad

[morgan]

We have horses on it as the kikuyu mineral balance is no good for horses, so we get 10kg or so bags from the produce store, but a lot of pet and greyhound places sell small kilo bags. If not, you can get tablets from the health food store.

The wrist problems usually only occur in large breeds - it bows sideways, pics are frequently seen on the net of great dane pups with deformed legs. Knuckling over is easily recognised too. You shouldn't need to worry about giving dolomite unless you see a problem starting. It will reverse it in a couple of days.

Sounds like you are doing everything you can and obviously the breeder isn't worried about bowed wrists or knuckling over in your breed.