Help With New Puppy And Older Dog

[tracylacy]

Hi, we have recently got a new puppy (male 8weeks) and already have another male 3 & 1/2 years).

The older was being tolerant of the newer - but following it around paying attention to nothing but the puppy. We were also having a hard time with giving the puppy toys - the older would let the puppy play with it for a while then take the toy from it.

Then when I thought it was gettting better and older dog was starting to get used to puppy - the older dog bit the puppy - while I was watching - and did some damage (fractured jaw). Puppy is going fine now - just a bit bandaged up. But now I am really worried about what we are going to do about the situation - so scared that the older dog will hurt the puppy again.

At the moment they are not spending time together - apart from puppy in his crate (locked) so that the older dog can come inside and spend some time with us.

The funniest thing about all of this as well is that the puppy has been shocking with being alone - the first 3 nights we had him home he cried all night (we were trying to get him to sleep in the laundry). Since he has been home from the vets he still hates being alone (no different from before) we don't want to get him into the habit of sleeping with us so we have been sleeping with him in the lounge room - out of crate. Last night we decided we were sick of it and noticed that the only time the new puppy sits nicely in his crate is when the older do is near. So last night we all played happy families in our bedroom - older dog under the bed (he prefers outside so this won't be a problem in the future) new pup in his crate at the end of the bed. Puppy stirred once in the middle of the night - I just turned on the light so that he could see the older dog and it was all fine.

Any thoughts?

[TerraNik]

Wow... Sorry I don't have much to say about the issues between your two dogs.. I will let someone more experienced with these issues reply to that one, but it sounds like an awful situation for you.

With regards to the sleeping thing. I would continue with the pup in his crate in your bedroom. There's nothing stopping you from later on moving him out of the bedroom once he has settled down and is a little older. Lots of people have been successful with doing that. That was our goal, but we then decided that we preferred him in our bedroom!!!

I hope someone has some good advice for you...

[MsKatie]

Hi - I am not in any way a professional but thought it might help to share with you our experience bringing a new puppy into a house with 2 OLD dogs (and yes - that is in capital letters as they are very old - 12 and 16) Our puppy (kelpie) is very lively and has quickly learnt that she can bug our 12 year old bitch (to a certain extent) but needs to leave our 16 year old male alone. We were lucky that we had time to spend at home in the initial couple of weeks but we have still had a few snaps and yelps. I don't know if the puppy had done anything to annoy the older dog or it just thought it had but I really hope it all clears up for you.

Gradual supervised contact might be the way to go - but I would also be interested to read any replies.

Good luck

[tracylacy]

I think that we have worked out that is is definately a jelousy problem. We had to go to work today ans my partner put puupy in the garage and the big dog outside. When I cam home this evening they were both sitting happily at the gate! I nearly pooed myself - but I was so happy with Ghost (the older one) that he hadn't eaten Orion!

I showered Ghost with cuddles and pats because I was so happy with him. Orion wanted to be patted too, but Ghost was getting a bit grumpy every time he came near. So I decided to ignore Orion and keep patting Ghost. After we had said hello I left them alone and got on with making a cup of tea - there has been no probs.

I am so glad that I have worked out what the problem is - I feel a bit more confident about fixing the problem and making sure that something horrible doesn't happen again.

[Dogsfevr]

". Orion wanted to be patted too, but Ghost was getting a bit grumpy every time he came near. So I decided to ignore Orion and keep patting Ghost"

Actually you should have stopped patting straight away & walked away.You instantly rewarded your old dog for being grumpy.

[tracylacy]

So what do I do about the jelousy problem? I can't just keep ignoring them both forever?!

[Bjelkier]

I have had a similar problem with a rescue I recently had and my Samoyed and I am by no means a trainer or anything but . . .

You dont have to ignore them both forever. They can have cuddles but when you are hugging, Ghost for example and Orion jumps up and starts begging for attention thats when you get up and walk away. You are discouraging the behaviour in both dogs. Your telling Ghost that you wont accept him attitude towards orion and your telling Orion that he has to wait his turn.

With the crate training you have to pick one spot and stick to it. He can scream blue murder (and I know sibes will scream very well) but ignore him. Moving him around will only enforce the behaviour of crying = attention. This is a highly intelligent breed and they will take you for all your worth.

As for Ghost and Orion, honnestly I would seek the advice of a behaviourlist as soon as possible. This reaction from Ghost isnt what you want and without propper managment could get a lot worse. A behaviourlist can tell you exactly what the issue is and help you correct it so you dont have to ignore your dogs forever.

Until then I would keep the dogs apart unless you are watching them, Ghost could go after Orion again and you might not have time to step in. Be careful and good luck.

EDT - to fix some stuff.

Edited September 4, 2008 by Wolfsong

[Dogsfevr]

"So what do I do about the jelousy problem? I can't just keep ignoring them both forever?! "

You dont reward the bad behaviour but also dont encourage a situation for jealousy to arise until both dogs are happy with each other.

St present you need to be smart & make both dogs feel important but on your terms,you cant allow a situation where the older dog wins .If both are sharing very nicely praise & walk away.

You must be patient & give both dogs time to adjust especially an older one if there not the best sharers

Obviously this boy at present isnt ready to share but you cant pander to him .

How did he interact with other dogs prior to the pup coming home??

If on walks was he very social or did he react??

[tracylacy]

I patted Ghost when I first came home and realised that he hadn't actually killed Orion - I think I did that soon enough so that he associated that with being a good dog all day (maybe?/hopefully?).

I have never had a problem with Ghost an other dogs, he has always been friendly and wanted to play with them.

Orion is gettting used to his crate very well - we have had 2 nights of sleeping the whole night and I have also had him sitting in during the day without too much drama.

Thanks for all your help - we will definately be raising these issues with the vbet when we take Orion back on Tuesday - I feel like I need all the help I can get, I would die if something worse happened. I think for the moment I will separate them if I feel like there is potential for problems (this id what I have been doing so far)

[penny A]

hello I read a little about your problem. first of all there is no problem with pats and cuddles with your dogs its the way you do it is what the problem is. basically you should ask the dog to come to you and the one you asked to come is the one you want to pat and the one you didnt ask you lightly push away, until you have called it over. So if you call ghost and orion comes you lightly push orion away and keep patting ghost and vice versa. Then when you are ready you can call orion over for his pats.

Dogs work in a pack structure and the older dog has to show the puppy where he is in the pack.

Now if you go over to the older dog and start patting him without you calling the dog over to you then you are increasing his hierachy posistion. If a dog comes to you for attention and you give it to him then you are helping him believe he is the boss when it really should be you.

So by all means pat and cuddle your dogs but call them to you first one at a time to begin with until the aggression stops.

You can put the dog in the crate and slowly move him to the bedroom door then the hallway etc until you have reached the laundry. that is a way or just let the puppy cry in the laundry he wont do it for too long. but the longer you keep him in your room the harder it will be for him to settle in the laundry.

hope this helps.

I am a dog listener and I would recommend you read jan fennells dog listener books.

[tracylacy]

Well guys, first I want to say thank you all so much for your help!

I have been taking on board what you have all had to say about this.

I would like to tell you all that the boys are now getting along swimmingly. Orion is pretty much healed now and they have been allowed to spend a bit of supervised time together. I really think that Ghost is learning to play gently (Orion doesn't want to stop playing with Ghost!) Ghost is using his body to play rather than his mouth alot more now - which makes me feel a lot more comfortable.

I really think they are going to be great friends!

We are still keeping them separated during the day when we are not here. And Orion is still sleeping in his crate in our room (without Ghost now). I think it is nearly time for us to think about moving Orion's crate outside (I think it might work better than the laundry because Ghost is outside and I think that he is more likely to be quiet if he can see Ghost than if he is left by himself in the laundry)

Thanks again for all your help - I'm sure I will be back sooner rather than later with another question!