Focus Training..tips Please!

[Snoozie]

Hi all,

I need some tips on focus training my lab. He's pretty good walking and at home but I took him to an obedience trial on the weekend and I just couldn't keep his nose off the ground.

This boofa doesn't care much about food once he has his nose firmly planted so tips that don't rely on food reward will also be helpful.

Am willing to try just about anything really to see what works best. If I can't teach him to focus (he's turning 3 this year) I'll have to retire him to the life of just being a pampered pet, which would be a shame as he loves his outings all the time!

Thanks! :D

[Luke W]

Hi all,

I need some tips on focus training my lab. He's pretty good walking and at home but I took him to an obedience trial on the weekend and I just couldn't keep his nose off the ground.

This boofa doesn't care much about food once he has his nose firmly planted so tips that don't rely on food reward will also be helpful.

Am willing to try just about anything really to see what works best. If I can't teach him to focus (he's turning 3 this year) I'll have to retire him to the life of just being a pampered pet, which would be a shame as he loves his outings all the time!

Thanks! :D

In one of the books I read, it mentioned using nice scents as a reward.

Sealed plastic bags containing "estrus deer urine" and other nice stuff!!!!

The theory was..."Why should I sniff the ground when mum has such great smells in her pocket"

At the time I thought if nothing else it was novel!

Have you tried really get the lab into tug?

I've read about transfering the value of rewards from one thing to another. Perhaps you could transfer the value of 'sniffing' to tugging or food.

An interesting challenge!

Edited September 1, 2008 by Luke W

[Ptolomy]

Hi all,

I need some tips on focus training my lab. He's pretty good walking and at home but I took him to an obedience trial on the weekend and I just couldn't keep his nose off the ground.

This boofa doesn't care much about food once he has his nose firmly planted so tips that don't rely on food reward will also be helpful.

Thanks! :D

Gees a lab that doesn't care about food - I really have to wonder about this - so my next question would be what sort of food are you using. Its my guess that it is boring and whatever smells are on the ground are more attractive.

Just my thoughts.

How would I cure it - reward more often - so every couple of second - then break it off and allow him to smell the grounds. Then call him back again and go through the same process - so he then learns that there is a working time and also a free time. You can't expect him to stay attentive for the entire time you are there.

Good luck.....

[Kavik]

Never heard of the scent thing Luke - sounds interesting

I have some focus problems with Diesel, more related I think to motivation and/or stress/excitement. He is great in the park and at training, but loses focus at big events and I want to trial him. I use food so you can ignore my ideas if you like but anyway - I spit food and Diesel has to catch it. I am also doing more clicker work for focus and it is working well. I took him to the Dally day yesterday, with the aim of click/ treat for any attention/eye contact, and was able to get some good focus happening :D

I think sometimes we try to do too much too soon, and they don't have the attention/focus for the exercise yet in a high distraction environment. So maybe just work on focus in different places (this is what we are doing, I am not doing anything fancy, just focus, and a few fronts since he really likes those).

Do you have good focus in the yard, on walks, at training?

[Snoozie]

Hmmm he will do anything for fishfingers and they work well until I don't have anything in my hand or in my pocket, which is the case in doing a trial.

The other thing is that once he has his nose on the ground he is reluctant to lift it...even if I shove the food under his nose on the ground. Maybe you are right in that I am not using the right type of food...

So I wasn't quite correct. He does love food he does respond to food, but the minute I take it away I am no longer interesting, so in this, food is not really working for me. Not to mention the fact that when I use food motivation I can no longer walk around without him trying to get at my hands because he thinks I always have food.

I would rather not use food if I can is what I'm trying to say I guess.

[Ptolomy]

I would rather not use food if I can is what I'm trying to say I guess.

Hmm - think you need to move to WA and go and have a lesson with one of our gurus. Take it from me food is never done away with. The dogs are all taught to keep working because at some points I am going to either click and treat or JACKPOT with a truck load of food. :D

SO what you need to aim for is to vary the intervals between food rewards - but never ever cease them. Remember also that training can be fun - you can take him down to the oval and play with him - teach him hand touches, play line up games and the moment he does what you are asking reward him. You then become fun to be with and I bet the sniffing takes second place.

[Kavik]

Another thing you can try with food, is to try to get the rewards off your body. This is another thing I am working on with Diesel. I am teaching him to release to a treat bag, and a send away to a food target. Then I am going to add focus before releasing to a treat bag on the ground, and then progress to heeling before release.

If he is sniffing and not paying attention, you could also correct him for not paying attention, or move away at a pace that does not allow him to sniff, then heaps of praise and rewards when he pays attention.

How have you worked on focus so far? Have you tried using a clicker?

[Snoozie]

Most of the focus training stuff has been done with triangle of temptation...Using a giant squeaky bone for fetching which he loves and incorporating commands into the fetching game eg; he has to sit and wait and look at me for release command before he's allowed to go and fetch his toy...that sort of thing.

I have also done the hold food in front of him, call his name, wait for him to take eyes off food and look at me for attention then reward and treat.

I play games while walking him where I'll walk really fast...then stop suddenly, walk backwards, sidewards etc to try and keep his attention on me and where I am....

I have also just started (tonight) on working on the head up command. In other words when out walking etc not allowing him to put his head down to sniff in the first place...

Please don't get me wrong...I don't want to rule out rewarding with food altogether I just don't want to have to rely on food to get my dog to pay attention to me. What happens if i'm walking and he somehow gets away and I don't have food???? It's because of these sorts of scenarios that I want to be able to get him to focus on me without the use of food...all the time anyway.

Edited to Add: The problem is not so much at home or out walking...it is when it comes to being at a training ground or a ground where trialling is taken place. I know it's because there are so many exciting smells...but I need to resolve this.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Snoozie

[Kavik]

Most of the focus training stuff has been done with triangle of temptation...Using a giant squeaky bone for fetching which he loves and incorporating commands into the fetching game eg; he has to sit and wait and look at me for release command before he's allowed to go and fetch his toy...that sort of thing.

I have also done the hold food in front of him, call his name, wait for him to take eyes off food and look at me for attention then reward and treat.

I think these can be modified well for focus work. TOT - you could use the toy on the ground or your treat bag and he has to focus before release.

The second one can easily be adapted for clicker work.

You would want to get these behaviours rock solid at home and on walks/at the park before expecting them to work at training or on a trialling ground.

My aim with my dog is to work longer periods without a food reward, and work up to the amount of time and exercises needed to be done in the ring (so I can then reward when we get out of the ring). And to be able to release to an external reward, so I don't have to have the rewards on me. I don't expect to be able to phase rewards out entirely.

And I never walk without food :D

[charli73]

We had a REALLY hard time getting focus from our GSD until a trainer sugggested when were out walking and sits at the curb, we dont move off (dont release her) until she looks up at me without me saying anything or making a noise ..

After weeks of "look, look" and jiggling leads we just waited patiently and she grew tired of waiting and learnt very quickly what she had to do to get something or somewhere.

We tried this weekly at training too with distraction and we made her sit and just waited.... Also with food we hold it at arms length and she gets it once she looks at us.

Eventuall the dog learns to focus to get things...

Now we are working on a longer focus instead of a quick glance.... its working wonders for us!!!

[dogdude]

Hi Snoozie

As Ptolomy suggested, you really need to find a successful trialling mentor, to teach you how to fine tune your dog for trialling.

Not sure about anyone else, but I have specific rewarding sequences as a trial is approaching, that I know, suits my dog, and will help him acheive the level of concentration and drive needed to score well.

Its something that I have played with since beggining trialling, and I am still learning new things to do for improvement.

What you need to remember is trialling is a game, and not real everyday stuff that you would expect your dog to perform at the level required in a trial. (ok....maybe recall)

To score well in a trial, the dog needs to be ultra motivated, and highly driven to perform as close to perfection as posible. If you dont use food as motivation, you need to find something else that the dog will walk over hot coals for.

Trialling is all about avoiding each and every point deduction, and needs the training broken down into little pieces to address each and every problem that may incure the slightest penalty.

Just a small example, many top triallers wouldn't dream of doing block heeling (as in what the local obedience club drills each Sunday morning), and only marry up all of the work during a trial or a trial run through.

They also make sure that they vary their training grounds daily during trial preperation, to get the dog tuned in to strange, smelly, and distractive enviroments, and will scratch at the 11th hour if somethings not right.

One memory still stands out fresh in my mind during a Gina O'Keefe seminar I attended.

Gina asked a student of the seminar to demonstrate an exercise with her dog, which it performed ok.....just not perfectly, and she commented that "see"........."that dog is nowhere near trialling stage", and you wouldn't waste your time at a trail just yet" (or words to that effect).

The owner appeared gobsmacked, as it already had a title!

Gina meant no malice in the comment.....but it did highlight to me the difference in expectation the top triallers have on their own dogs, in order to be as successful as they are.

The first thing I did when I got home, was scratch my dog from his debut trial (following weekend) and spent another couple of months working towards our new expectations, and ended up with a Highest Score In Trial at his debut trial.

One thing I have noticed with my new pup and the prey drive method of training, is that it produces a performance that you basically dont have to continually tinker with to get a good performance, compared with using food drive for motivation (JMO anyway)

Oops...didnt mean to write an essay......sorry!

[Kavik]

Yeah I hate block heeling! A good way to get them bored!

While I can get awesome work for prey drive with Kaos, I find it harder to get precision with toys than with food, though it could be that I am more used to using food.

[Snoozie]

Thank you everyone for being honest and telling me what works for you.

Dogdude...Don't apologise for your essay, I needed it!

I think I am going to have to go back to basics and rediscover how to get him to "work for me". And especially, revisit what will make him WANT to work for me.

My 14wk old BC girl is already proving that much easier to train as she has more drive and will work for her favourite toy and is so much more attentive. Not to say this won't change in the future, but at the moment I feel like it's easier to teach her new things than him lol.

Edited September 1, 2008 by Snoozie

[JulesP]

Why don't you try tracking with your dog?? Give all that sniffing an outlet!