Teebs Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I know i have asked this ages ago, but cant find the info ARE prongs against the law in NSW? If not, can someone please point me to some info on them? I need it to show someone. Thanks!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 As far as I know they are not illegal in NSW. But I can never find any information on it, I've looked too! I've had people who don't agree with me try to tell me they are illegal and threaten to call the RSPCA on me though - this is why bandannas are good when walking with a prong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akitaowner Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 They are not actually illegal in NSW, however if it is not being used correctly (as with any training tool) the RSPCA are able to prosecute for cruelty. I dont think there is much factual info available for their use, however a trainer such as Steve at K9 force would be happy to discuss their merits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 Damn, i am all for them, but have had a dog trainer tell me they we can not use them here, i really wanted to find info to send to them to show that they can be used in NSW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I know i have asked this ages ago, but cant find the infoARE prongs against the law in NSW? If not, can someone please point me to some info on them? I need it to show someone. Thanks!! K9 force's website has a whole article on them with pic- and Steve sells them too. I'm about to buy one from him!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 I got mine off Steve will go check the site out - didnt think about that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 ANKC affiliated clubs most likely won't let you use them at the club or at a trial, as that is their policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rugerfly Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I walk Fly in her prong, and e collar.....nobody has ever asked me about them She really only carries her e collar till we get to the park cos you cant have both on at the same time etc to train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) Pressure Point Collars (aka "pinch" or "prong" collars) are ONLY banned from use in Victoria at the moment. There is no law which precludes them from use in NSW. But don't bank on it that will last forever, or even for much longer, as Hugh Wirth is on the rampage again and news has it he has been talking to Canberra with a view to having all laws made the same, throughout the whole of Australia. That will most likely mean that all other States will adopt the "banned from use" regulation we have here in Victoria for PPCollars, and that Victoria will adopt the "banned from use" regulation you have there in NSW for E-Collars. It will certainly make it easier for Hugh Wirth who will have influence (control?) over the whole of Australia with one fell swoop, instead of having to address every State individually when he wants to bring in laws (numerous of which are stupid and definitely NOT IMO in the interests of dog-welfare - more in the interests of $$$, I suspect) which address and affect dogs. I promise you ..... it is happening . ETA - Kavik is right. I don't think ANKC allow the use of PPCollars at any of their clubs or official events. And I believe that if you ask the RSPCA they'll tell you use of the collar is banned regardless of which State you are in. Those that say this either believe it themselves, or want you to think they are banned. Edited August 30, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 Erny, i had no idea they were looking at banning them - who do we write to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 (edited) Erny, i had no idea they were looking at banning them - who do we write to? Well .... I would suggest it (amongst other not so sensible laws) are on the cards. As I mentioned, Hugh Wirth has been speaking to Canberra for a while now. Some months ago, he put an editorial in the RSPCA News where he said he would like all the laws relating to Animal Welfare (which would include regs such as the Victorian ban on PPCollars) to be levelled across all States. Write to your MP's and also write to your Minister for Agriculture. I am not completely certain as to whether HW met with Canberra at a Federal level. I am trying to find this out and can only guess at this at the moment. At this stage of the game, I'd be addressing your letters to your State Government though. I did a letter for those who loathe to write .... you'll find it at doglaws.blogspot.com. It only relates to the PPCollar. You can use this or adapt your own :p. Numbers. It is about numbers. You .... WE .... need to make our individual voices heard. Those individual voices WILL become collective if we sing them often and loud enough ;). Orgs such as the RSPCA (Hugh Wirth) seem to have a "get out of gaol free" card when it comes to wanting and getting regulations, and I can tell you from my experience and from documents I have from Govt in relation to when the Victorian regulation came in to ban (and from my attempts to talk to govt now) the PPCollar, that they don't want to know about reasoning and don't base their decisions on evidence. The rules of Natural Justice and Procedural Fairness go out of the window, it seems, when it came to passing our current Victorian regulation. Democracy? It's supposed to be but to me it just seems to be one big fat farce. And the Victorian Labor Govt certainly set it up so that it can be. :cool: ETA: The Association of Pet Dog Trainers have also done a 'drive' by writing to Govt around Australia, telling them they don't consider the PPCollar nor e-collar to be dog friendly and expressing their disapproval. I imagine this has been read by Govt as being said on behalf of the APDT's members and from what I have read it certainly seems that this is what the APDT purports as well. My membership renewal with Association of Pet Dog Trainers has been refused because of the campaign I have been doing here in Victoria to have the current Victorian regulation re-addressed. The APDT didn't say anything about the check chain though. Nor the Head Collar, even though there is evidence of harm caused (albeit perhaps inadvertently) by it, yet not the PPCollar. Go figure . The Govt haven't. Edited August 30, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 Just curious here. Do the police forces and RAAF use prongs and e-collars? What will they do if they are banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Just curious here.Do the police forces and RAAF use prongs and e-collars? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I am just so horrified at the possibility that this amazing tool that I have just started using may become illegal. Honestly, if I had not been given a prong to try my dog on I may have had to consider my options with her were all over- I simply could not feel confident in controlling her. She has responded frighteningly well on it. As well as being able to walk her without ANY attempt to pull, her obedience training with it has been FLAWLESS- I can throw her favourite ball with her on stay and she will not flinch. I have in both cases had to correct her very minimally. Initially I found it it a bit scary, but quickly got over that when I realised that she was hyper responsive and I did not need to correct her anywhere near as much as I have had to on any other tool. The sporn harness I used was pretty good but I still did not have her complete focus and was correcting her on it A LOT. This is just my experience so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I am just so horrified at the possibility that this amazing tool that I have just started using may become illegal. Honestly, if I had not been given a prong to try my dog on I may have had to consider my options with her were all over- I simply could not feel confident in controlling her. Then please ..... do something about it. Write to your MP at the very least (refer my previous post/s). Complacency is what the Government and the orgs who defame this tool rely on. That, and on a lot of words from people, but no action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee lee Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I am just so horrified at the possibility that this amazing tool that I have just started using may become illegal. Honestly, if I had not been given a prong to try my dog on I may have had to consider my options with her were all over- I simply could not feel confident in controlling her. Then please ..... do something about it. Write to your MP at the very least (refer my previous post/s). Complacency is what the Government and the orgs who defame this tool rely on. That, and on a lot of words from people, but no action. Will do. Keep on at them Erny!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I am just so horrified at the possibility that this amazing tool that I have just started using may become illegal. Honestly, if I had not been given a prong to try my dog on I may have had to consider my options with her were all over- I simply could not feel confident in controlling her. Then please ..... do something about it. Write to your MP at the very least (refer my previous post/s). Complacency is what the Government and the orgs who defame this tool rely on. That, and on a lot of words from people, but no action. Will do.Keep on at them Erny!! :D Thank you .... and I will (and am) . The submission is all but complete and ready to be 'heard'. In all seriousness, the only thing that is now lacking are voices ...... LOTS of voices . Terrorbull .... sorry for the slight hi-jack of your thread . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganman Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 My sister lives in the UK and over there the e-collers just been banned by the goverment in Wales she reckons its only a matter of time before theyre banned in the whole of the Uk and the English kennel club is pushing for this.She doesnt know anything about prongs or even if theyve got them over there. Do you reckon Australia will follow the Uk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petmezz Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 (edited) My sister lives in the UK and over there the e-collers just been banned by the goverment in Wales she reckons its only a matter of time before theyre banned in the whole of the Uk and the English kennel club is pushing for this.She doesnt know anything about prongs or even if theyve got them over there. Do you reckon Australia will follow the Uk? yep i do think that is a sign of reality Edited September 2, 2008 by petmezz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 (edited) Do you reckon Australia will follow the Uk? Certainly - unless people who recognise the disadvantages of those laws, and the hypocrisy towards "dog-welfare" it creates, start standing up and voicing objection from now on. So many people laid low and although grumbled at the (particularly Victorian) laws that are now in place, have not been continuously and/or instrumentally active in voicing those objections. The Government have counted on this - they would have known that there would be many enough who would not agree with the laws they have allowed to be created and imposed. But they rely on those 'grumbles' going away and not affecting them to any great extent. So - object with letters to your MP and to your State Minister for Agriculture. Object verbally, spread the news and encourage others to do likewise with letters. And if the Govt won't listen, make the noises that will let them know you'll show them your displeasure and disapproval with your "vote" cards at the next elections. After all .... the Government is put in there by us, presumably to Govern as we see is good and right. Democracy is supposed to be what our system of Government is about. Edited September 2, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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