vrox Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 It's too late to ask this question now, as our little girl (4.5 months) was spayed yesterday - but we're now questioning whether we did the right thing and the anxiety is killing us! On the vet's advice, we sent our poor little Scout in to get spayed (as she's a golden retriever and proned to hip displasia, he said that 18 weeks was the ideal time to spay her, as they could also scan her for HD at the same time, and if she did have it, they could perform non-invasive surgery to fix it before her bones begin to fuse at 5 months). Despite all the pros with getting her spayed, we've just now realised the very real chance of her developing urinary incontinence. How will this affect her life?Apart from that, we are also worried whether this removal of her hormones at such an early age will affect her development mentally and physically. We know we should have asked the vet all these questions before the operation, but we were probably just too blinded by our trust in the vet. If anyone can share any of their experiences or advice that would be great. Are we being too much of a worry-wart?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Personally I wouldn't desex a large breed at such a young age, you'll just have to wait and see if she develops incontinence, some do and some don't. I have never heard of vets routinely scanning for HD at 18 weeks and I've never heard of non-invasive surgery to fix it, normally dogs are x-rayed over 12 months of age or prior to being bred. Does your dog do Pennhip because that's the only way to x-ray a puppy at 4 months of age and even then you only get a preliminary score. I'd be finding another vet if I were you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gretel Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Well she's done now. There are lots of pups desexed young who never suffer incontinence. My girl who did was desexed as an adult. I'm with Miranda on choosing another vet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I'm not a breeder but a scientist - agree with Miranda.....not much point x-raying for HD until after 12 months of age. Desexing early does make for a very slighly taller dog but this would happen whether you had the dog desexed early or at anytime before growth plate closure. The effect on HD is really not clear as there are so many contributors including genetics, diet, obesity and excessive exercise. Although I'm personally not fussed on your vet's advice (and more so for the reasons behind it which are a little confusing!) and would be looking elsewhere, urinary incontinence can occur in bitches desexed at a young age or a bit older. Don't worry - I'm sure you're doing the very best you can for your girl.....there's risk in every decision you make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombie Bait Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Just posted something very simular (sp?) in general as our 6 1/2 month old RR is displaying signs of spay incontinence. If I had of had all the info before hand I probably would of waited loner to spay her. Hindsight is a wonderful thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrox Posted August 30, 2008 Author Share Posted August 30, 2008 I guess it'll just have to be a 'wait and see' situation. Yes, unfortunately it's only in hindsight that you realise things could have been done differently. Will definately look around for another vet though. Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigirl Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 With rescue, ALL puppies are desexed prior to going to thier new homes, and this includes 8 week old puppies. Thus far I have not heard of any ongoing problems as a result of being desexed so young. For a dog of my own though, I would probably not desex until around 12 months in order to give the growth plates a chance to close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 With rescue, ALL puppies are desexed prior to going to thier new homes, and this includes 8 week old puppies. Thus far I have not heard of any ongoing problems as a result of being desexed so young. For a dog of my own though, I would probably not desex until around 12 months in order to give the growth plates a chance to close. Just out of curiosity, how many of the rescue puppies would be large breeds? I would have thought that more of them would be small or medium breeds, but that is just guessing. Also, most problems resulting from early desexing could take quite some time to show up and not be apparent in the first year or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I would rather desex young then run the risk of my puppy being stolen and ending up as breeding factory for a puppy farmer. Rescues desex 8 week old puppies all the time. I just had two rescue pug pups desexed at 5 months old. We waited till they were big enough to cope with the anasthetic otherwise we would have gotten them done earlier. Incontinance can happen to any dog not just ones that are spayed young. As for the growth plates and desexing young making dogs grow taller. My male pug was desexed when he was nearly two years old and he is a tall pug whilst my female pug was desexed at 6 months and she is a short little tank so that throws that theory out of the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I would rather desex young then run the risk of my puppy being stolen and ending up as breeding factory for a puppy farmer.Rescues desex 8 week old puppies all the time. I just had two rescue pug pups desexed at 5 months old. We waited till they were big enough to cope with the anasthetic otherwise we would have gotten them done earlier. Incontinance can happen to any dog not just ones that are spayed young. As for the growth plates and desexing young making dogs grow taller. My male pug was desexed when he was nearly two years old and he is a tall pug whilst my female pug was desexed at 6 months and she is a short little tank so that throws that theory out of the window. Sorry, but it doesn't throw that theory out of the window - it is the result of a number of scientific studies whereby dogs/cats randomly did or did not not undergo early desexing. I am not denying your personal experience but that is the consequence of your dogs meeting their genetic potential. The sex hormones stimulate growth plate closure - the absence of these delay growth plate closure - simple physiology. I certainly advocate the early desexing of animals if their owners are at risk of not having it done (e.g. pounds, shelters, rescues, popular puppy farm breeds) - it's a case of weighing up the consequences and risks for each individual animal - there are pros and cons to everything! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I would rather desex young then run the risk of my puppy being stolen and ending up as breeding factory for a puppy farmer.Rescues desex 8 week old puppies all the time. I just had two rescue pug pups desexed at 5 months old. We waited till they were big enough to cope with the anasthetic otherwise we would have gotten them done earlier. Incontinance can happen to any dog not just ones that are spayed young. As for the growth plates and desexing young making dogs grow taller. My male pug was desexed when he was nearly two years old and he is a tall pug whilst my female pug was desexed at 6 months and she is a short little tank so that throws that theory out of the window. The growth issue is more of an problem with large/giant breeds. Smaller breeds generally stop growing much earlier than giant breeds, so in many cases, the growth plates have already closed in a small breed at the 6month point. Large/giant breeds still have tonnes of growing to do at 6months. I can kind of see where the vet was coming from. IF i dog has HD, then it is much easier to surgically repair at that age. But usually that's done in cases where the pup is already displaying symptoms. To say they can scan now is a bit odd, because even if it comes back looking ok, it can still change with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) Having spoken to a specialist recently re hip dysplasia- it is true that if HD is detected before 5 mths that they can resolve it much more easily than waiting. There are many dogs desexed early who have no problems so i wouldn't beat yourself up about it. Edited August 31, 2008 by Cosmolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Having spoken to a specialist recently re hip dysplasia- it is true that if HD is detected before 5 mths that they can resolve it much more easily than waiting. There are many dogs desexed early who have no problems so i wouldn't beat yourself up about it. Couldn't agree more with what I've highlighted in bold, Cosmolo. A question for your other point - how can they reliably detect HD before 5 months of age? Everything I've read says that there is little point in x-raying before 12 months of age - I'm more than happy to be corrected though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrox Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 I guess what got us worried was reading a few articles which said something like 1 in 5 dogs develop urinary incontinence as a result of early age neutering (it seems to be more prevalent in bitches than dogs), with the incontinence usually appearing between 3-5 yrs. And whilst there are hormone replacement tablets, not all dogs will respond to this. Also, I've read that neutering at an early age can also reduce the dog's longevity and increased signs of fearfulness. It's so hard to know what's actually fact & fiction- I guess that's why we wanted to hear from the experiences of people who've had their pups desexed at an early age. I know there's nothing that can be done now and there's probably no point in worrying about something that can't be controlled, but it'd be really useful information in the event that we buy another little bub in the future...it's good to learn from past mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) I will see if i can find a link with the info and post for you spotty And to the OP- there are many people who could provide you with examples where not desexing the dog created issues so its about awareness and doing whats right for your pup and situation. I have never heard of early desexing increasing the likelihood of fear based behavioural issues though Edited August 31, 2008 by Cosmolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Having spoken to a specialist recently re hip dysplasia- it is true that if HD is detected before 5 mths that they can resolve it much more easily than waiting. There are many dogs desexed early who have no problems so i wouldn't beat yourself up about it. Couldn't agree more with what I've highlighted in bold, Cosmolo. A question for your other point - how can they reliably detect HD before 5 months of age? Everything I've read says that there is little point in x-raying before 12 months of age - I'm more than happy to be corrected though I know of several cases of puppies with shocking hips that were under 6 months. I guess in some cases it is so bad that its really obvious early on. The fact they have a procedure to fix it means that it must be around. One of our vets' girlfriend's pup was diagnosed at about 5 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigirl Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 With rescue, ALL puppies are desexed prior to going to thier new homes, and this includes 8 week old puppies. Thus far I have not heard of any ongoing problems as a result of being desexed so young. For a dog of my own though, I would probably not desex until around 12 months in order to give the growth plates a chance to close. Just out of curiosity, how many of the rescue puppies would be large breeds? I would have thought that more of them would be small or medium breeds, but that is just guessing. Also, most problems resulting from early desexing could take quite some time to show up and not be apparent in the first year or so? Rescues are all sizes, breeds and ages. The only difference is that often a carer can fit more smalls in than large breeds. But then again many rescues are young puppies which will grow up to be large dogs. Regardless of size ALL rescues are desexed before being rehomed - at least I hope they are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Myschafis~ Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 All my pups from my pending litter will be desexed before being rehomed I will probably wait until 12 weeks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 My vet states that early desexing was brought in in the USA to prevent the number of dogs/cats being produced and ending up in shelters. It was a purely economic decision not based on any research. This idea was brought to Australia and sold as a great fixer but failing to mention how many pups and kittens died as a result of pediatric desexing. Regardless of pound or lovingly breed pups/kittens its criminal to desex early and cause death. vrox I am not talking about 5 months here. I believe that a breeder should not desex pups until the appropriate age that that breed should be desexed. vrox I feel your vet is working under the desex everything school without looking at the affect on a particular breed. Also dogs are xrayed at 12 months because the hips and elbows and manipulated in an attempt to dislocate them to gauge the movement. Similar to what is done to a baby human to check for DDH. If this was done before it could cause major problem as the joins are still forming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 (edited) Oops double post. Edited August 31, 2008 by Bilbo Baggins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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