Jessca Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Hi guys i want to 'try' a prong on kaiser, he is currently going through his "im a teenage boy" stage, and is strangling himself on his chocker and not even noticing it. im having to correct him way harder than i'd like to and am probably starting to damage his neck. i am also worried because he's at that stage where is a dog has a go at him and he retaliates, and he's getting to be a big dog, and im not a very big girl. im worried that i may not beable to hold him back and something mght happen. anyway long story short does anyone have an old/cheaper prong that i could try or borrow, i dont see the point in going out and paying for a new one if i may never use it again. kaiser is a male dobe so would probably need a medium, not quite sure. the only problem with all this is i live in vic and have a dobe(the short hair can be a problem comapered to sheps with a mane) thanks everyone. Cheers Jess. BTW-no poilitcs or anything please, unless you have another suggestion on something other pp collars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 The only thing Jessca is that prongs are illegal in Vic. Erny is working hard to change that though! But I'm not sure how you would get around that, unless you are going to do it on the sly and hope you don't get caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 How are you teaching him to walk loose leash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I suggest you contact a dog trainer and have a few private lessons before you go out and purchase a prong collar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinaJ Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I suggest you contact a dog trainer and have a few private lessons before you go out and purchase a prong collar. I too suggest you contact a trainer first before making that purchase, also it is illegal to use a prong (but people do make covers for them so that you cant tell its a prong). I have a rotty bitch (10 months old) who pulls like a bull on a correction collar, whereas all of my male rottys (3) walked perfectly with a correction collar and flat collar. I contacted a trainer (for other reasons as well - she is so totally different to my males) and we began traning her on a halti - what a difference that made, its like chalk and cheese. Jett has been using a halti now for about 6 weeks and he said we should be able to go onto a flat or martingale within a month. No matter what too you use to train your dog it must be used correctly, hence the suggestion of a professional trainer, they will teach you the correct way to use the collar, be it prong, halti, correction or martingale. If you need a trainer I would hightly recommend Eastern Companion Dog Trainers in Croydon, he is brilliant and my dog just adores him. Cheers! Trina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) The only thing Jessca is that prongs are illegal in Vic. Erny is working hard to change that though! Yes - I am working on trying to have the current Victorian regulations changed. Getting our current Government (who regulated for the current ban in the first place) to even agree to listen and see the evidence and information in the submission I have to hand is the biggest hurdle I have at the moment, and is the reason I need all those who recognise the benefits of the PPCollar (Pressure Point Collar), to be writing to their MP's etc. etc. I guess if they refuse to even discuss it, all we can do is let our voting send a message at the next election. But that's another story. Jessca - I am trying to change the regulation from "total ban" to "restricted use" ..... which basically means that use of the PPCollar be condoned and permitted ONLY under the supervision of a qualified instructor. Mind you ..... I think Head Collars and Check Chains should be listed with the same restriction. In the meantime, you do need to observe that the PPCollar (aka "prong" collar) is banned from being used in Victoria. Even though it's proper use may well be in the best welfare interests for your dog. This is what gets my goat. Edited August 25, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~*Shell*~ Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I would recommend the PPcollar if you have exhausted all other options (Zero can't wear a halti or a check chain which i think should be under restricted usage), but wouldn't ever recommend using it in a state where it's illegal to use one. Zero has improved dramatically, but i have had to explain to a lot of people why he's wearing one and how it works. If you were to get someone knowledgeable who quizzed you about it (even under a cover, you can often see what it is if you know what you're looking for) you could get in a lot of trouble for having one on your dog. When they become legal to use in victoria (i have every faith in Erny!) then i would consult a professional and see if it would be a suitable tool to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) When they become legal to use in victoria (i have every faith in Erny!) ... Thank you ..... I only wish I had the same faith in the Government. They are 'closed ears' at the moment, and don't even wish to discuss it. :p . This is why the petition (especially the Victorian one by Victorian residents) is so important at this stage. Refer : doglaws.blogspot.com I'm still pursuing it though. After all, our government is supposed to be based in democracy. I'd like to see them evidence at least that. Edited August 25, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateykateykatey Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 In the interim would something akin to a Blackdog Infin-8 collar be a viable option? Because the lead attaches at the back of the neck (behind the ears) with a martingale, I can't see that it has the same potential for head snapping. It can be used without the face strap, simply as a martingale, as well. I use one of Scrimp- he doesn't pull, so I could walk him on a flat collar, but I am not strong enough to hold him if he were to lunge at something (which almost never happens, but I don't want to take the risk). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) In the interim would something akin to a Blackdog Infin-8 collar be a viable option? Because the lead attaches at the back of the neck (behind the ears) with a martingale, I can't see that it has the same potential for head snapping. I have one of these (for discussion/demonstration purposes) and am familiar with them and their design. However I haven't needed to use them. In a thread from some time ago, Poodlefan has pointed out that whilst the sideways leverage is alleviated as a result of the design, the leverage angle still remains, although from a different point (ie downwards, with the axis being on the uppermost vertibrae that joins the head to the neck). As to how much leverage is applied there would much depend on how the head collar is fitted to the dog (ie how loose/firm the nose strap is compared with the neck/martingale strap). So whilst the "leverage" issue isn't as obvious, it shouldn't be assumed that there is no leverage action affecting the skeletal structure of the dog at all. I know of no damage caused as a result of the Infin8 though. Although not that many people who I meet actually use one. Edited August 25, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateykateykatey Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 So the leverage isn't the same as for a martingale, fitted high on the neck? I *think* the instructions recommend fitting the nose strap very loosely (ours is very loose) so the pressure on the nose band is minimal, if at all (I mean, Scrimp doesn't pull anyway). Sorry, I'm straying off topic, it's just an interesting topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 (edited) So the leverage isn't the same as for a martingale, fitted high on the neck? I *think* the instructions recommend fitting the nose strap very loosely (ours is very loose) so the pressure on the nose band is minimal, if at all (I mean, Scrimp doesn't pull anyway). A martingale (as we know them) doesn't have a nose-band, so no, it doesn't have that leverage. On the infin8, if the noseband is very loose so that the martingale section of the collar is the one that is activated rather than the noseband, then there would be little to no leverage between where the head joins the upper vertibrae of the spinal cord. But if the nose-band is so loose that this the case, there would be no need for the nose-strap at all, unless you are using it in the "weaning off the head collar" stages of training. And if Scrimp doesn't pull, perhaps this is why you are using the Infin8?? Edited August 25, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kateykateykatey Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Yeah... It occured to me when I was writing these posts that I tend to think that it is as much for my peace of mind than anything else. My partner walks him on a flat collar, I just worry that I can't control him if he has some kind of altercation with another dog (and even still, last time that happened, before the dog got to him he was trying to turn me to leave). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 But KateyKK .... if the nose strap is so loose, all you're really walking him on is the martingale collar component anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessca Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 (edited) thanks everyone for your help. i will be consulting a profesional, theres one at my local club, we just have to be carefull that we dont get caught by the head people talking about them. some people have offered, privatly, to help me out and i'll try and take them up on that offer. i also have alot of faith in what Erny is doing, (btw the petition went around the centre on saturday, unfortunalty not the one i organised because they kept avoiding my phone calls, but anyway they got a fair few signitures) i only want to try a prong on kaiser, really just whilst hes going through this teenage stage after that i think he'll be fine. ETA- If you realised why i edited it, you might try to do it too, the trees have ears you know..... :rolleyes: Edited August 27, 2008 by Jessca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zook60 Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I purchesed one from ebay from the states i think it was about $35 delivered. I have to say it has totaly transformed the way my boy is on the lead. The best theing is there is no redness around the kneck that he was getting from the check chain. Its gone from him pulling all the way to being able to walk him holding the lead with one finger. If used correctly i dont see how they are harming the dog at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I purchesed one from ebay from the states i think it was about $35 delivered.I have to say it has totaly transformed the way my boy is on the lead. The best theing is there is no redness around the kneck that he was getting from the check chain. Its gone from him pulling all the way to being able to walk him holding the lead with one finger. If used correctly i dont see how they are harming the dog at all. There is a strong chance that any purchase of this item will be confiscated by customs. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Erny looks like I'm the only one who has their 'dog training equipment' boxes shredded and retaped like a bunch of sugared up 5 year olds with a tape gun got to it. And wait an extra couple of weeks. That will teach me to ship via Air Israil depends what you write on the box they dont always check whats inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Erny looks like I'm the only one who has their 'dog training equipment' boxes shredded and retaped like a bunch of sugared up 5 year olds with a tape gun got to it. I've read even just here on DOL where a number of people have had their PPCollars ceased at customs point. Cold comfort to know you're not alone, though . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Midol Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 (edited) Customs stole my prongs too. Edited August 27, 2008 by Lord Midol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now