~Anne~ Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I took in a surrendered boy on the weekend who is now in the care of a foster carer. One of the 'bad habits' I was told about when he was surrendered is that he marks and he digs up the grass. This lad is 5.5 years old and was desexed when he was 8 months old. He marks EVERYTHING. He literally never actually urinates for the sake of emptying his bladder, but instead he marks continously. Inside, outside, everywhere! He even marked a food bowl (empty of food). He also struts around and randomly scratches as if he has just marked but he does this even though he hasn't. He obviously also does this after most marks as well. Within a day, my lawn was showing definite signs of him being at my home. This doesn't concern me particularly as grass is grass in my view and it will grwo again but I would imagine it will be a negative factor in re-homing him and one thatc ould be an issue in a new home...not to mention the obvious negative aspect of his marking. Given that this boy was desexed be fore he was completely sexually mature, why is he displaying such male orientated traits? Could he actually still be raging with testosterone... but if so, how? He doesn't have any testes. He had lived with another male dog, a Labrador as I understand it. I am unsure if the Lab was neutered or if he was like this. Could this lad have picked up a learned behaviour from the other dog, and if so, would it be this strong if it was learned??? Can anyone give any clues, apart from the usual toilet trianing techniques, on how to control this boys 'manliness'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Any chance he's still got a testicle tucked up somewhere? Perhaps a belly band might convince him that leg cocking isn't required in the house? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 20, 2008 Author Share Posted August 20, 2008 Any chance he's still got a testicle tucked up somewhere? I would have thought that the Vet who did the desexing would have reported on this though? Nothing is his records which suggest this. I am not sure we could determine this now could we? Or could it be done with palpatation?? Perhaps a belly band might convince him that leg cocking isn't required in the house? Yes, this is what we are using but he isn;t slwoing down. It is still early days though but you would normally see a change by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 (edited) I'd have thought they might be able to check hormone levels by blood or urine? I guess it's probably behaviour that's been allowed to develop. It is rewarding for dogs and if two males constantly over marked one another, probably well ingrained. It's beyond my expertise but I know Bitty Mo Peep had a foster dog like this, you might PM her? Happy wore a belly band when he came to my place for grooming. Edited August 21, 2008 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 I just spoke to my Vet about the testing of hormone levels and he said he has never been asked the question before. He said you would need to know what the normal levels were for a dog of his age and size too and he wasn't sure there was such a measurement. David feels it is more likely a learned behaviour. He suggested giving Kersti Seskel a call and let him know what she said as he is also a little intrigued. I've got her number so I'll give it a burl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I have a bitch that marks if you want a curve ball It may be a learned behaviour or he could just be a VERY dominant little rascall who needs some discipline. Looks like he feels the need to prove himself he could have lived next door to some entire dogs and they were constantly in competition with each other, or the lab was an entire male and he always wanted to get the better of him too. I have seen desexed terriers come into the clinic and start marking everything the little buggers, then you see them do the little shuffle of " OI THIS IS MY LAWN" scuff scuff scuff They are usually pushy, untrained little dogs that seem to be like this too Desexing does not completely abolish these behaviors it decreases your chance and makes the dog more pliable to your training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 My neutered Rotti does this (done at age 2 though). Marks every tree, marks where other dogs have marked, wee's in his bowl and other bowls after every meal , scratches up the grass after he's wee'd on the lawn etc etc. Seeing as I have other dogs here all the time George's marking is constant. He even wee's on Esme sometimes but he is not a dominant dog. I just thank dog that he is reliable indoors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 A dog I had years ago was like that, he was never allowed inside as he would mark everything the minuet he walked threw the door. The back yard would be inspected every day at various times to make sure no one had marked his areas, and the other dogs where peed on sometimes as they belonged to him too. He was a rescue so we had no idea what age he had been desexed but he continued doing it until the day he died at the ripe old age of 13. He had no health issues or anything, just very dominant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 Thanks everyone. Clyde, this one sounds like your Rotti. He shows no other dominant behaviours and is not aggressive in the slightest. In fact, he is the happiest, most playful loving Pug I have seen in a long while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Testosterone is also produced by the adrenal gland and he may have been castrated properly but the adrenal gland still produces more than normal. I had this happen with a horse who acted very like a stallion but we knew he was properly castrated. Blood tests showed he was producing enough testosterone to still have one testi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 (edited) Instead of testing 'hormone' levels what about testing thyroid levels? Or explain the problem to the Vet and get them to test for a wider range of things? Edited August 21, 2008 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 Instead of testing 'hormone' levels what about testing thyroid levels? Or explain the problem to the Vet and get them to test for a wider range of things? I have spoken with my Vet. There are no other issues apart from excessive marking so I can't see the point in running up costs when it appears possibly behavourial. The testosterone theory was my theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Where was he desexed? I had a male Pei pup (5 months) desexed in Sydney and they told me and charged me for the castration 2 months later in his new home he was displaying tendancies I would only see in an undesexed male dog Vet visit and an ultrasound later, he had a retained Teste that the first vet could not find so they left it there When I remarked to them on it they said they could not find it so assumed he only had one, nice of them to tell me Can you trust the desexing vet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 (edited) Instead of testing 'hormone' levels what about testing thyroid levels? Or explain the problem to the Vet and get them to test for a wider range of things? I have spoken with my Vet. There are no other issues apart from excessive marking so I can't see the point in running up costs when it appears possibly behavourial. The testosterone theory was my theory. Thyroid can cover lot's of behaviour traits, it costs about $70.00. At least it can be ruled out? Would I be flamed if I said give the dog a reason not to mark inside the house? Oh and I had a dog whilst growing up that was desexed, he later on become the proud Dad of 12 Goldie x Labradors LOL Edited August 21, 2008 by sas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 Where was he desexed?I had a male Pei pup (5 months) desexed in Sydney and they told me and charged me for the castration 2 months later in his new home he was displaying tendancies I would only see in an undesexed male dog Vet visit and an ultrasound later, he had a retained Teste that the first vet could not find so they left it there When I remarked to them on it they said they could not find it so assumed he only had one, nice of them to tell me Can you trust the desexing vet? He has only just come in to my care and was desexed almost 5 years ago at a Vet in Sydney. Thyroid can cover lot's of behaviour traits, it costs about $70.00.At least it can be ruled out? Would I be flamed if I said give the dog a reason not to mark inside the house? Oh and I had a dog whilst growing up that was desexed, he later on become the proud Dad of 12 Goldie x Labradors LOL True, but I would think there would be other symptoms? He has a gorgeous coat, has no history of illness, eats like a Pug and is a very palyful happy guy. He doesn't even show any food or toy aggression. At this point I am happy to trial behavioural techniques. If all else fails I will seek further Vet advice. What was the story on the dad of 12 pups?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Retained teste I would say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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