Drop Position

[DogsLover]

Hello All,

Just a quick question, my Doberman puppy currently close to 6 months old drops in a very uncomfortable position i.e. her hind legs are bended like in a squatting position. Sometimes, her chest will be floating from the ground and when I re-enforce the drop command, she will go down completely.

Today, I made her drop stay for 2 minutes and after I released her, she was limping. She must have tried really hard to be in the drop position I am very hesitant to give her the drop command after that.

Have any one of you experienced this situation? How can I re-train her to drop in a more comfortable position?

Thanks in advance

[Kavik]

Dogs have two main ways that they drop - the sphinx position when they are ready to get up at a moment's notice (what it sounds like yours is doing) and a more relaxed position with their legs to the side. Which one they do seems to depend on whether they are relaxed/know they will be there for a while or whether they think they will get up soon and quickly. I'm not sure how you would train for the relaxed one Diesel will do the relaxed one for stays and the sphinx on the move or when I have a toy. The Kelpies tend to do the sphinx unless they are relaxing on their own or are in a drop for a while.

[persephone]

Hi- it's certainly not normal for a pup to be limping after doing a 'drop'. May I suggest, if you haven't done so, that you have her joints tested- for Hip and /or elbow dysplasia... and anything else joint-related.

[Erny]

I agree with Persephone.

Perhaps the reason your dog has been dropping awkwardly is because she is a bit sore somewhere ..... ???

[Erny]

Just to add .... it might be worth looking at the method you're using to bring her to the "drop", whether this be by the "Guide, Show, Place" method or by "luring". It can often be the way you use your hands and where you use them that can make all the difference. ETA: (And if using the GSP method, you need to be very careful with regards to hand placement.) In my travels I see dogs dropping awkwardly and it can often be traced back to the 'handling' procedure from when the pup was first taught.

But still worth having her checked as she shouldn't be sore.

Edited August 16, 2008 by Erny

[DogsLover]

Dogs have two main ways that they drop - the sphinx position when they are ready to get up at a moment's notice (what it sounds like yours is doing) and a more relaxed position with their legs to the side. Which one they do seems to depend on whether they are relaxed/know they will be there for a while or whether they think they will get up soon and quickly. I'm not sure how you would train for the relaxed one :p Diesel will do the relaxed one for stays and the sphinx on the move or when I have a toy. The Kelpies tend to do the sphinx unless they are relaxing on their own or are in a drop for a while.

The sphinx position, is it what that is called? Now that you mentioned it, it does like one

She only drops into the relaxed position on her own but never on command When I give her the "stay" command, she just remain in her sphinx position until I release her.

[DogsLover]

Just to add .... it might be worth looking at the method you're using to bring her to the "drop", whether this be by the "Guide, Show, Place" method or by "luring". It can often be the way you use your hands and where you use them that can make all the difference. ETA: (And if using the GSP method, you need to be very careful with regards to hand placement.) In my travels I see dogs dropping awkwardly and it can often be traced back to the 'handling' procedure from when the pup was first taught.

But still worth having her checked as she shouldn't be sore.

Thanks persephone and Erny!!! The vet checked her hips and elbows during her 16 weeks vaccination and he said they are all good then. She only limps for a few seconds after I released her and she is back to running like normal. But I might get her check out again.

Erny, I trained her to drop by "luring". Initially, I put a treat in my hand, place the treat in front of her nose and gently brings it down. Now I just have to give the command drop with my hand moving vertically down and she will drop.

[Kavik]

What surface are you training on? Grass, carpet, concrete, wooden floors?

[Erny]

The sphinx position, is it what that is called? Now that you mentioned it, it does like one

She only drops into the relaxed position on her own but never on command When I give her the "stay" command, she just remain in her sphinx position until I release her.

Nothing wrong with the "sphinx" position, but back should not be hunched up and elbows and chest should be on the ground.

Sphinx position is like this ....

Although I am not opposed to the 'relaxed, flipped hip, position' unless people specifically don't want it (because I figure the more comfy the dog is, the more likely they will hold their drop), the "sphinx" position is generally preferred by dog training enthusiasts. The dog is more poised to move to whatever other command the handler might give. This picture is of my avatar girl "Kal" (since passed, bless her cotton socks) and when she would lay down of her own accord to rest, she would lay with her hip flipped, more relaxed.

Edited August 16, 2008 by Erny

[Kavik]

Although they prefer the relaxed one for down stays - or at least the clubs I have been to like them for that. I remember when training Zoe they said you should get them to tuck one paw under when in the drop stay so they will be less likely to break I was like, I have a Kelpie X! Zoe never did the relaxed drop in training. Diesel will sometimes.

[DogsLover]

What surface are you training on? Grass, carpet, concrete, wooden floors?

Tiled floor.

[Kavik]

Ah, OK, maybe the surface being so hard is what is making her limp? Does she drop fast? If she does, she may be slamming her elbows on the ground, which hurts. Could you maybe do it on a soft surface for a while and see if it makes a difference?

[dogdude]

My advice is to leave the heeling drop out of your training sessions, and practice long drops only, until she works out for herself that a side saddle drop is much more comfy.

You can also help her a little by rolling her carefully onto her hip.

When you re-introduce her to the heeling one.......keep them quick.

Dogs will normally pick the lazy option, and will start to choose the right one for the job.

This wouldn't take long to fix.

[DogsLover]

Thanks Kavik, I trained her on grass surface today and she was fine. But in saying that, I put her in a drop stay position for only about a minute and abit at a time as I do not want to push her too much at this time.

Thanks dogdude, that is a good point. Today, I tried to use a treat to lure her and also gently roll her over to her hip before I gave the stay command. I tried that a few times. Hopefully, she will soon automatically drop to a "side saddle" position soon. I realized that she always do a side saddle drop if she does it on her own.