Gerda the Schnauzer Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Hi there, We have an 8.5 week old std schnauzer, who is just adorable, but we are having a few troubles. We are crate training during the night time, and the rules are that she can come in when it is dark (a very cold!) but is outside during the day. When she is inside she is only allowed on her special big cushion and on a lead (so not free run of the house or anything). We do the triangle of temptation at meals, and she is good at that, and sits on command for all of us, and for me without command So the problems are: - at night she doesn't seem to need to wee much, which is great. We take her out at about 10pm when we go to bed (after sleeping in the lounge with us). Then we put her in the crate, next to the bed (toy, hot water bottle etc). She cried a lot last night though when trying to go to sleep and once or twice in the night, but no wees (I have a baby so cannot let her cry it out or anything). What should we do to calm her down or stop the whining/barking? She didn't need to wee (took her out twice). Should she go in the crate earlier? Should we bring it into the living room for the evening? Put treats in there? Or is it a digestive thing, she ate cat poo yesterday, gross, and did two big poos this morning... We also would like the crate outside of our bedroom, how long till that can be tried? She still gets up early, are thses normal sleep times? - During the day there are times when she needs to be outside on her own (like crazy children times), but she whines and barks at the door constantly if we are in view - should we ignore this? Close the blinds? - To go to sleep with us around she likes to have my feet... as in, I sit in a chair and she curls up on her cushion at my feet. Not much else will clam her down, although she will sleep if she is on her own outside with us not in view. I dont' 'coddle' her, but this is something I have done for peace and quiet... after she is asleep I can go and get things done... Is this ok? I guess I am not sure how strict to be this early on. She has been with us since Saturday. Thanks for any help Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Your puppy is only a baby. She has recently left her mum & littermates & all is new & strange. IMO you are being far too strict. Get a puppy pen & let her be inside with family company. Its freezing & lonely outside. When you put her outside on her own,for a short while I hope,play with her for the first few minutes & have toys,chew things etc out there so she has a pleasant association instead of I am shoved out here all day. Wanting to be close to you & cuddle is normal. Cant advise on crate training as I dont do it,I paper train pups. Early waking is normal. Your puppy is not going to be an uncontrolable monster if you ease up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoremIpsum Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Disclaimer: Am not expert. Just have puppy. And like to butt in. Hi Anna, My general impression is that you are being a bit strict for a 8.5 week old puppy. Is there any reason why you're being so strict? I gather you want her to be an outside dog? If you've got a baby it must be a bit tricky to manage everything. But, personally, I think you need to give her a bit more affection and a bit more freedom. When you say she's outside, is she outside all day until it's dark? (Then later you said that sometimes you had to put her outside during the day, so I'm confused.) What does she do out there when she's alone? It seems a bit restricted for her to just be on her cushion and a lead when she's inside. Puppies are very curious! Have you let her explore her new home? As for the "crazy" times, that's really just a part of being a puppy. I make a distinction between craziness (us new puppy owners in the Labrador forum call them "zoomies") and Martha doing things she's not allowed to do, like biting. But a pup needs to be allowed to run around like a mad thing without being isolated or thinking that it's bad. You can still reward her calm behaviour. As for the crying at night, I think you just have to wait it out. It's not a digestive thing, it's a lonliness thing — until Saturday, she slept with a loving mother and playful siblings in a great big puppy love-in. I'm not sure why you wouldn't want her to sleep at your feet? My puppy sleeps on my lap! And she's a twelve-week-old Labrador! And Martha never cried at night, so I don't think it makes them sooks. The other thing I did which was really beneficial was start training on day two. She loves it, I love it, and it gives her a framework for understanding what I want her to do. Start with sit and go from there. Benefits abound. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerda the Schnauzer Posted August 13, 2008 Author Share Posted August 13, 2008 Oh sorry, I have made it sound very strict! It isn't like that really, when I say outside all day I mean WITH US! We have all been outside playing, gardening etc with her while she was out there, apart from once or twice when we had her there on her own. This morning was the first time we have had to put her out while we were inside where she could see us really. The pen inside is because it stops her having accidents, stops my 10month old pulling her hair, and means we don't have to hold the leash etc. my daughter (4) mostly sits in there with her. Or I put my feet in and she goes to sleep. I don't mind her sleeping at my feet at all (love it) but thought that because I won't be able to do it every time she needs a sleep I might be making things harder for her in those times - if that makes sense. She has had a good look about the house, and we don't use the pen once the kids are in bed, she doesn't seem to need it and just sleeps in the cushion (which is huge by the way, not tiny! The crazy times - I didn't mean the puppy! (Gerda) I meant MY children! I don't want them to upset/pull at/or hurt her at all, so she may be safer at times outside. We don't want her to be an outside dog, but she won't be allowed free range inside either, I want her to understand that being inside is for quiet play and cuddles/TV time etc, rather than the we play outside (run jump around etc). Is that unreasonable? She is inside when it is dark, which is when it is cold, we are in QLD so it isn't that cold! I'm not being cruel I don't think. Hope that helps, feels like I am writing an essay LOL, but so thankful for any help. Botheration - yes, a bit of training has helped, just a few treats and sits etc (getting my daughter to do it too), and the TOT too. That seems about as much as she can do right now, which is still a lot to me. The crate is right next to our bed, and my hubby reaches his hand in to calm her down, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 If your hubby reaches in while she is crying, she will do it more so as she will think she ie being rewarded and thats how to get your attention. I would ignore her while she is crying- reward when she is quiet. It may mean a few sleepless nights but if you are 100% consistent, it will rapidly improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerda the Schnauzer Posted August 13, 2008 Author Share Posted August 13, 2008 Thanks Cosmolo, that's what we are worried about... but it turns into barking and we will have the whole house awake! (training my son is much harder than this, so I don't want him woken up all the time) We wait for a tiny bit of quiet before comforting... but it probably isn't long enough really. Not sure how to do it without moving her to the garage or something, which doesn't really appeal to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 The only other thing you can do- which is not my preference at all with a puppy- is have a lead coming out of the crate and give a small lead correction. Extinction training (ignoring) is a better option as it teaches the puppy that that behaviour gets no result. If you do it right- they will get worse before they get better for a few nights (barking etc) and then settle quicker and quicker each time if you're consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 (edited) I wouldnt lead correct an 8 1/2 week old puppy that doesnt even have an idea of what a lead is yet Cosmolo, especially since the owners have a high chance of doing it incorrectly. If she cries, ignore her and get ear plugs! It wont last too long but giving her attention at all will yield a puppy that works harder. Schnauzers are determined, working mentality dogs - give an inch take a mile! Remember to do something with her down the track (obedience, agility, flyball etc) as they are not moochy, lazy house dogs at all! You can crate the dog, put it in the laundry or far side of the house and cover her with a blanket. Wear her out too before going in for the night, maybe take her outside for a final run around and wee which will make her more likely to want to sleep. If she lays about all evening she will want to get up and make noise. Exactly like babies, let them sleep too much during the day and they will keep you up at night. I think you are doing the right thing, so many puppy people think training starts later but you definately have hit the nail on the head! The more work you do now the easier it is down the track, keep up the good work. Remember one thing though - encourage and reward as well as provide a consequence to behaviours. Edited August 13, 2008 by Nekhbet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 (edited) Thats why i said (a number of times) my preference would be extinction training. But given the choice between being relegated/ isolated to a garage at 8 1/2 weeks and having a small lead correction- i know what i would choose. Neither option is preferable! But if extinction training is not an option (and its not for some people) other options have to be looked at as inconsistent extinction training would not be a good thing. ETA Maybe i'm not being clear- i apologise, i'm having a really bad day Edited August 13, 2008 by Cosmolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerda the Schnauzer Posted August 13, 2008 Author Share Posted August 13, 2008 Thanks for helping, I understand the choices here.... I just wish we could let her cry it out nearer to us... But also, how will I know when it is a cry for a wee/poo rather than just attention? Do I take her out once then leave her after that? (as in, per waking). Getting up doesn't bother me, totally expected it, and my hubby even took a week off work (pup-ernity leave!) to help through the day when we are tired etc. Just trying to not establish bad behaviours now. Nekhbet - thanks, yep, that is why I am trying to be a good 'leader' (whilst compassionate), they are strong willed dogs! I really want to train her up quite highly, only for my own pleasure. Mostly sniffing/finding duties (termites, children, favourite toys LOL) - yep, high hopes for my ability to do this! I've read up a lot though. Anyway, will be fun to try. Plus lots of beach time when her injections are done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoremIpsum Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 The crazy times - I didn't mean the puppy! (Gerda) I meant MY children! I don't want them to upset/pull at/or hurt her at all, so she may be safer at times outside. Sorry, I really did the wrong end of the stick! I think you're doing a fantastic job raising a puppy when you're also raising such young kids. My parents also managed to raise both child and a dog, and I'm forever grateful that they took the time so that I could grow up with a puppy friend. I didn't crate train so I can't really answer the crating questions. But I still reckon its fine for her to sleep at her feet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerda the Schnauzer Posted August 13, 2008 Author Share Posted August 13, 2008 Haha, that's ok, I didn't write it very well! I knew it would be hard doing this all at once (children, puppy)... but I wanted them to have a dog, and I wanted one too, and this is the time of life when I have 24/7 to devote to raising the puppy, later will be part time hours (work) which isn't very good for a puppy, but easier for a grown dog... from what I heard. I'm so glad you appreciate your parents efforts, makes me think I haven't made a mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
je33ie Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Hi Redmum! Sounds like the pup is settling in fine. Just remember to be consistent, and most of all - enjoy her!! They grow up way too fast so make sure she gets to enjoy being a puppy while she can. We have Geordie right at the other end of the house in her crate (she's now 10 weeks old) and let me tell you, that first night of ignoring her while she cried herself to sleep was one of the hardest nights of my life!! But I'm glad I did it because now she doesn't cry at all. Make sure you take her out for a wee just before bed time (and sit out there until she does one), then put her straight in her crate. For the first few nights we set an alarm for every 3 hours and ignored her crying in between, that way we knew that it wasn't a toilet-cry, just a 'I'm sad because I miss my brothers and sisters' cry. She's now sleeping the night through and I'm finding I have to wake her up in the morning! I would highly recommend having her in another room though, then she won't become dependent on you being there all the time for her to go to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerda the Schnauzer Posted August 13, 2008 Author Share Posted August 13, 2008 Thanks for the advice, and good point on her relying on us... Last night was much better, I put my slipper in there (I know I know... a lifetime of shoe chewing and ankle nipping!) - and it worked, and I figure the downside to that I can correct later or during the day. She was woken up by a crying baby at 5am, went for a wee, and eventually back to bed till 6am (which is great, my son was up at 5.15!!). Now I guess we move her out of the bedroom. Now she can wee so well, and we have figured out when etc, she is coming inside during the day a little more. The hard part is her jumping and biting the children. They are good about it, but my four year old is getting scared now... I just told her that Gerda is a puppy and we will have to train her etc... I hope it isn't too long till Gerda stops it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaGirl Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I found that giving my puppy whatever shirt I'd worn that day to sleep with in her crate settled her down faster, doing that makes her feel like she's still with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Welcome to the world of the standard schnauzer ;) They are very different to the other varieties. But stick to your plan & be very consistent because the stds intelligence means they will happily take there owners for a ride if given a chance.They can be a very vocal breed so dont fall for the noise trick either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoremIpsum Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 I found that giving my puppy whatever shirt I'd worn that day to sleep with in her crate settled her down faster, doing that makes her feel like she's still with you. But how does your shirt survive? I just get a mangled rag if I tried that trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerda the Schnauzer Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 Yes, but my shirt goes to my son!!! Hahaa, my things are becoming hot property LOL. The slipper didn't even get chewed, just slept on I think. SettrLvr - its been a long time coming, but hopefully all the research will pay off! I'll be back asking about barking in no time I think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PandaGirl Posted August 14, 2008 Share Posted August 14, 2008 Daisy doesn't chew my shirts, only my shoes, so I'm lucky in that respect. She's at the point now where she doesn't need my clothes to sleep on as long as she can sense I'm in the room she's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerda the Schnauzer Posted August 14, 2008 Author Share Posted August 14, 2008 Awww, are you going to keep her in there? Or move her out? Do puppies get cranky when they are tired?? We are finding that she bites at the children more when she is tired... which makes a lot of sense when I write it out! Not sure how to stop her though (isolating her for a nap makes her pretty furious!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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