Housebreaking Question

[DazzleKitty]

Hello, everyone. This is kinda my first real post here.

To make a long story short, I got a Chinese Crested a while back named Jimmy. He had a relapse on his housebreaking and we had to start from point one. This is my first time ever housebreaking a dog.

Oh, and some info on Jimmy: in his old home he was housebroken. He just needed some review, I guess. Also, he's a little over one year old.

He broke his leg a little bit ago and had the splint removed last Thursday. While the splint was on, he had accidents every now and then. But he started to gradually get better. Tonight he had his first accident in a while, but a whole bunch of questons popped into my head.

I know the regime of housebreaking. Watch it constantly, keep accidents from happening, and that positive reinforcement is the best. I have been doing my best to train Jimmy to go on command, and I think it paid off.

Tonight, he pooped when I wasn't looking. Normally now, he lets me know when he has to go. He usually does this by scratching at my leg or getting a little antsy. He's been good at doing this lately, and I'm proud of him.

There were a bunch of people walking down our subdivision tonight. It sounded like a bunch of young people chatting and wanting to have fun. I discovered this whenever Jimmy let me know he had to go outside. I think the people distracted him from going, as his full attention was paid to them. He peed, but that's it. That's why I believe he pooped when I wasn't supervising him. I figured he'd let me know, once again. Or maybe I am overestimating my training results?

But, only two or three hours after I took him out that time, he got into his doggy bed and I saw him peeing in it out of the corner of my eye. I was shocked! I could unstand the poop, but there was no warning of the pee.

Is my housebreaking results bad, or could it be a territorial thing? He and my other dog Dixie barked a bit tonight because they could hear the people. Maybe this sparked it? Or I could be seeking excuses. :p

Someone told me that if a dog has one accident in the house, even if from being upset, it's not housebroken at all. Is this true? It seems a lot of dog owners have trained dogs that have the occassional accident. I on't see how that's true. Sometimes accidents are not the dog's fault at all but the owner's fault.

This also makes me ask the question....when do you know you can fully trust your dog is completely housebroken? I've taken some gambles on mine and gotten lucky and some points, and unlucky at others.

Perhaps I should have crated Jimmy when he didn't poop outside when the people where out there? I heard it's an effective way.

Then again, Jimmy's poop schecule is wacky. Some days he'll poop up to four times, and then other days once. Very, very random. You never know what to expect with this little guy.

I'm seeking some advice and enouragement here. I was thinking I'd done it right, but tonight kinda shattered the condfidence!

Thanks in advance.

Edited August 6, 2008 by DazzleKitty

[dee lee]

My dog has been toilet trained for some time now and the only accidents occur when we haven't let her out- purely our fault and hardly ever happens (recently went on holidays and WE were so excited to get inside the house we forgot to let her pee!! After a 2 hour drive! Then we wondered where all the "water" had come from ).

I reckon if you cant remember when the last accident was, or stop thinking about, it the dog is trained. Doesn't matter really because you are still having to monitor him anyway.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things- perhaps he is just unsettled after having his cast off?

Keep at it, he WILL get it. :p

[DazzleKitty]

Haha! I'll be that accident wasn't fun to deal with.

I know for a fact I am doing two things wrong, though. I usually don't crate Jimmy when he hasn't pooped outside when I think he may have to go. But as I said, the poop schedule is inconsistant. My mom claimed he pooped this evening, so I figured he wouldn't have to go again when I got off work. Wrong. He had another poop accident tonight.

And the other reason I don't crate him is because I am silly and too softhearted. :rolleyes:

I know I should be monitering him closer, too. He'll go several days without and accident and then I get super optimistic. And then, BOOM. Here comes the poop and pee again!

I guess he needs more work. We used to praise him like mad when he went outside. Now I just let a simple "Good doggy" in a soft voice suffice. Maybe I need to put more into my praises again.

Hopefully this will work. Thanks for the encouraging words.

[kateykateykatey]

The smell is an issue, too. AFAIK dogs can still smell the urine/poo smell after it's been cleaned, and I've heard it's important to use a 'biological cleaner' (whatever that is) to help get rid of the smell (otherwise, apparently, it's like a target). I bought something in the pet section at Big W that seems to work okay, but other people might have better suggestions.

You could teach him to let you know when he wants to go outside (I've heard of dogs ringing bells, for example). With Lil, who had a little bit of a regression with the toilet training, it was a matter of walking her out on to the lawn on a lead and waiting for her to do it. When she did, I gave her a command, "be quick" and praised her. I think prior to this, when I wasn't walking her outside, she was just going and sitting in her kennel till I came to let her back inside. Now I don't need to walk her outside... but she also goes out with my other dog, so I don't know if that helps make it clear what I expect her to do.

Definitely encouragement is important- and praise him for alerting you that he wants to go out, as well. Even when it's 4.30am, and I hear Scrimp (the big dog) pacing, I try and praise him for waking me, and put them both outside. I check to make sure they've run down to the backyard, then give them a little pat and "good dog" when they've come back in. It's not infallible, but lately its been working.

[DazzleKitty]

I have another question and an update, kinda.

Since my last response, Jimmy has only had ONE accident,which happened again. Though being myself, I am really paranoid.

I am trying to analyze why he went. I had just taken him out about 1.5-2 hours ago. He peed and pooped. He comes back in and starts to play with my other dog, Dixie. They were getting kinda 'rough' and were chasing each other around the house like mad. He got really thirsty and I heard him lapping up water.

Not too long later, he tried to get my attention, though not as much as he does when he normally needs to go out. He is usually insistant. I started to smell something like pee, and saw that he went a little bit on his bed! I took it to the washroom, to come back to see that he had peed on the other dog bed, too! It was soaked!

Does playing rough dogs have to potty? Or could it be from drinking up a lot in a short time?

He's been so good these last 10 or so days. I'm really scared he's gonna relapse again! He almost always is good about letting me know he has to go outside.

[DazzleKitty]

Anyone?

[KittyCat]

My dog is toilet trained and we have only had an accident if we misunderstood her signs.

Firstly I would not panic, to be successful in any sort of training, including housebreaking you MUST be committed to resolving the accidents, consistent in your approach and praise and patient as these things take time.

I am trying to analyze why he went. I had just taken him out about 1.5-2 hours ago.

He was probably due again

When training puppies it was always recommended to me that you take them out for toileting after they eat, sleep and play as they are pretty regular when only a few weeks/months old. But these times are usually a good indication of when dogs need to go - my girl usually does a lap or two around the yard before she sqats for poos.

[DazzleKitty]

My dog is toilet trained and we have only had an accident if we misunderstood her signs.

Firstly I would not panic, to be successful in any sort of training, including housebreaking you MUST be committed to resolving the accidents, consistent in your approach and praise and patient as these things take time.

I am trying to analyze why he went. I had just taken him out about 1.5-2 hours ago.

He was probably due again ;)

When training puppies it was always recommended to me that you take them out for toileting after they eat, sleep and play as they are pretty regular when only a few weeks/months old. But these times are usually a good indication of when dogs need to go - my girl usually does a lap or two around the yard before she sqats for poos.

Thanks for the help, I appreciate it. One thing I forgot to mention is that he is a year and three months old, so he should have full bladder/bowel control by now.

We got him about 3 or so months ago. He was housebroken in his previous home but had a little bit of a relapse at ours, so we had to start from point one. It took us a while, but we got him to the point where he almost always goes outside. And for several days (around 10-14), he didn't even have one accident. We thought he'd finally understood. But since my last post here, he's had quite a few more. He's peed on the couch and on his bed. He is also starting to poop in the house again. I think he's learned to stall time when he's outside with me. I took him out this morning, and the first thing he normaly does is find a place to poop. I was out there with him for a few minutes, and he wanted to go back inside. Only minutes later, he pooped on the floor. I don't know why he didn't do it when he was outside. The same thing happened again tonight. I was outside with him, and he didn't go. About an hour later, he went in the house.

I am scared he will never get it. I thought we finally had a breakthrough. I just hope one of my attempts will succeed. I'm afraid to let him out of my sight again, because I don't want him to pee on something like my own bed.

I alwalys praise him verbally when he potties outside. He got the point where he'd let me know when he had to go, like my insistantly scratching at my leg or running around urgently. The past couple of days, he hasn't been doing that. He also seems to have to pee alot. I am wondering if he may have a urinary tract infection. I rather doubt that because I feel he may just have another relapse, but I may take him to the vet on Monday just to rule it out.

[KittyCat]

Your welcome DK, although I am not the most knowledgable and can only advise bsed on my experience and with what was advised to me.

I don't frequent the training pages and a lot of other DOLers who could offer more (and better) help don't either so I would pop another post into General Dog Discussion

IMO, you need to treat his training as if he were a puppy, despite being an adult. Perhaps contact (if possible) his previous owners and ask what they did to train him and if they used a cue word he responds to, i.e. "weewees" "toilet" etc. If he is "stalling" when outside, take him out on the leesh. If he hasn't gone, bring him back inside but still on the leesh, wait a few minutes and try again. When he does toilet outside give him big praise.. and if he starts going inside, pick him straight up during the act and pop him outside and praise for continuing outside. There is no point yelling at him or shoving his face in the accidents, it achieves zilch.

ETA: If you are using a cue word, say it to encourage him and then as he is in the act repeat till he finishes. Just make sure you arent walking around the yard telling him to go "toilet" or he will get confused and think that walking around (or whatever he is doing) is going toilet. I hope that made sense lol

Also, some breeds, like Italian Greys are harder to toilet train. I have no idea if chinese cresteds are difficult but maybe that has a role to play

If you are doing some form of formal training with him, mention it to your trainer, they will be able to help you.

Finally from me, be confident! Dogs know if you are worried and nervous and will respond accordingly. If you think you will fail you haven't even given yourself or your dog a chance, and I have no doubt you will both overcome this.

Good Luck!

Edited August 19, 2008 by KittyCat

[DazzleKitty]

Your welcome DK, although I am not the most knowledgable and can only advise bsed on my experience and with what was advised to me.

I don't frequent the training pages and a lot of other DOLers who could offer more (and better) help don't either so I would pop another post into General Dog Discussion

IMO, you need to treat his training as if he were a puppy, despite being an adult. Perhaps contact (if possible) his previous owners and ask what they did to train him and if they used a cue word he responds to, i.e. "weewees" "toilet" etc. If he is "stalling" when outside, take him out on the leesh. If he hasn't gone, bring him back inside but still on the leesh, wait a few minutes and try again. When he does toilet outside give him big praise.. and if he starts going inside, pick him straight up during the act and pop him outside and praise for continuing outside. There is no point yelling at him or shoving his face in the accidents, it achieves zilch.

ETA: If you are using a cue word, say it to encourage him and then as he is in the act repeat till he finishes. Just make sure you arent walking around the yard telling him to go "toilet" or he will get confused and think that walking around (or whatever he is doing) is going toilet. I hope that made sense lol

Also, some breeds, like Italian Greys are harder to toilet train. I have no idea if chinese cresteds are difficult but maybe that has a role to play

If you are doing some form of formal training with him, mention it to your trainer, they will be able to help you.

Finally from me, be confident! Dogs know if you are worried and nervous and will respond accordingly. If you think you will fail you haven't even given yourself or your dog a chance, and I have no doubt you will both overcome this.

Good Luck!

Sorry my response to this is late. Thank you so much, KittyCat.

I know his previous owner said he only went out three times a day. Who knows if she's being truthful, though? Plus, I think that's kinda unfair to the dog to only let him outside three times. Maybe he can do it, but I at least like to let them go 4 or 5 times.

Jimmy knows the phrase 'go potty'. I taught him it and he usually pees when I do it. I'd say about 85% of his accidents are poop related, and almost all of them happen at night when I'm at home. I am not sure if my schedule affects him. I go to work later in the day, get off at night, and usually go to bed in the morning (crazy, I know!). Whenever he lets me know he has to go out, I take him. Sometimes, he gives no warning. I am not sure if he KNOWS that he must hold it, or he just goes when the fancy strikes him. Sometimes I think he just can't hold it that long, but I'm not sure what the deal is.

As mentioned before, he went almost 2 weeks with no accidents. He's still having them,usually one a day or every other day. I'm starting to lose heart, but I know I must persist. I wonder what happened to start the accidents again.

When we got him, he'd be crated when I was gone. I'd also crate him sometimes at night, but he never messes on the bed anymore (it's been months since he's done that....he was very new to us when it happened, and I knew why and that I was wrong to let him sleep with me so quickly). But lately, he's been in bed with me. He always wakes me up when he has to go outside and does his business quickly, usually.

We actually stopped crating him since he started to have accidents less frequently. He hasn't been crated in weeks now. I am pretty sure that's my mistake, but I want some second opinions here. I hate crating him, because his cries tug at my heartstrings.

Based on what I've said, do you think he understands he must go outside but can't hold it, or he's totally not housebroken? Should I start the crating again, or should I stick to a more strict outside schedule?

I'm hoping I can breach this soon. This is my first time housebreaking a dog all by myself. He's gotten so much better, but he's still not 100%.

Ah, and I did read something interesting about Cresteds recently! I have a book that goes into depth about each dog breed. Apparently, Cresteds are very stubborn and can be difficult to train. My dog calls the dog stubborn but I didn't think that could really apply to dogs with their way of thinking. Perhaps I was wrong.

Edited August 25, 2008 by DazzleKitty

[KittyCat]

haha that's alright, I haven't been online for about a week.

Jorja isn't crate trained so I can't really comment on the crate training, she sleeps in her own basket (keep in mind she is an inside/outside dog). If crating him suits you, you are doing him and yourself no favours by giving in to his cries. The more you ignore them the less he will cry and ultimately he will really enjoy his crate. Just make sure he has plenty of toys to keep him amused as well as clean and comfy blankets and constant access to fresh water :p

Considering he is pooing when you are home I would suggest taking him outside more frequently at night and encourage him to go to the toilet outside. I know it is tedious but when I was toilet training Jorja, in the thick of winter mind you, I was out at all hours in the freezing cold and it has been very rewarding.

I would decide on a routine and stick to it, for however long it takes to train Jimmy. Housebreaking Jimmy fully will take a while. I would say it took about 4-6 months before Jorja completely stopped having accidents but she was a puppy and I was starting from scratch. Each dog is different, some take to it like a duck to water and others put up a challenge.

Don't think of Jimmy as being stubborn, for whatever reason he has forgotten his toilet manners and now you are reprogramming him. Also, since you have brought him home you have changed his orginial routine, and now you have to get him into a routine that suits you, is realistic and achievable and one that you are willing to action.

Honestly I don't know anything else, I am a novice at all of this as Jorja is my first dog

Give it a go and as I have said in the past the key to it is

... you MUST be committed to resolving the accidents, consistent in your approach and praise and patient as these things take time.

If things don't start to progress I would speak to a behaviourist/dog trainer.

[DazzleKitty]

Thank you once again, KittyCat, for your help. I appreciate the time you dedicated to helping me.

I have another update on this....it's probably rather funny to you, but not to me right now....though I am sure in the future I will look back on it and laugh. ;) I went to a bookstore tonight and spent over $100....I left the bag on the floor for a bit, only to come back later and see that Jimmy peed on it. Yeah...I'm pretty sad over this, heh...

I think some of it is marking, too. I don't want to neuter him because I am considering breeding in the future (the very distant future, might I add). I may breed someday, so I need to learn to do this the right way with unfixed males.

I will certainly take your word and take him outside more at night. I am sure he probably was up during the day at his old home, as not a lot of people are vampires or the night like myself, haha! I'm gonna start praising him like mad when he goes outside again. He was getting into a routine so I stopped the major praising, so I'll start it up again.

Wish me luck in my quest for housebreaking success!

Edited August 25, 2008 by DazzleKitty

[KittyCat]

Oh no not the books! Jorj went through a few destructo pup moments.. I have lost 2 internet connection cords and the cord connecting the monitor to the drive to her menacing jaws not to mention the pompom off my footy beanie, holes in my socks and the sleeve off a t-shirt. Although the beanie was only 2 weeks ago you can't help but kick yourself for leaving such things in harms way and laugh at the whole situation. Mind you she hasn't attacked any of my books, my birds do though.. they love the loose homework sheets, pitty teachers won't believe me if I told them my budgies ate my homework lol

I still after having Jorja for now just over a year, she is 16 months, praise her for doing her business outside. Especially when we are not home and are at the park, beach, training etc. I practically do a song and dance when she goes, but that's also because she used to have a habbit of holding till we got home ;)

Good luck to both you and little Jimmy and I look forward to the day you post you have achieved success