Mouthing

[poochmad]

Henschke is pretty darn cute...however, at times he makes it hard for us to love him as he goes into that crazy biting phase, where he just can't stop biting...we seem to be saying AH-AH every second, clapping our hands, stomping our feet or crowding him (when he doesn't stop) and I was just wondering how long do we have of this? He's 9 weeks old and every day I check to see whether he's lost any teeth!

[persephone]

HI-

we seem to be saying AH-AH every second, clapping our hands, stomping our feet or crowding him (when he doesn't stop)

All these things may be just exciting him more.

What part of you is he biting?

If it's hands- well, just keep your hands away from him- unless he is settled :D

No playing tug or anything- no picking him up- no holding toys for him to grab...

Legs/clothes?

remove him calmly- or remove yourself.... leave him alone - no speaking... just somewhere there are no people! For several minutes.

make sure he has QUIET interaction with people.

CALM and smooth praise and patting/stroking- calm voice...

Does he have toys which he can mouth/chew/shake?.. he needs to be able to carry and pounce, to locate and pick up- all without associating this fun with bits of human :p

make sure he has a few irresistible ones (toys, not bits of human !)

[poochmad]

I can understand what you mean about getting him excited. He does seem to bite more when we do it. Just sometimes it's not possible to either remove him or ourselves.

We were trying to encourage him to use his pen as a place to chew and play with toys. Lately he is bringing them out of the pen and onto the rug - closer to us. Normally I wouldn't mind about this, but he's still getting over separation anxiety...so I wonder whether this should be encouraged or discouraged?

[poodlefan]

Unless you train a pup out of it.. it could last forever. If you've ever been around an adult dog with no mouthing inhibition, it's no laughing matter. The studies show this is not something that can be taught to an adult dog.. they either learn it as pups or not at all.

A pup isolated from other dogs has only one source of learning not to mouth... people.

There are quite a few threads about mouthing here and some excellent books about puppy training. The advice about discouraging calmly and making the behaviour unrewarding is very sound. Time outs (you leave or he does) may assist.

It's a harder lesson to teach some dogs (and breeds) than others. Persistance may be the key.

[LoremIpsum]

I can understand what you mean about getting him excited. He does seem to bite more when we do it. Just sometimes it's not possible to either remove him or ourselves.

We have this problem too. Martha attaches herself by her teeth to my clothes and for a while I couldn't move without setting her off more. This has improved though since I taught her the command "off", which just means "give" or "let go" in Martha language. She will stop and sit for a treat if she's hears "off". But then I feel I've wasted an opportunity to deprive her off my company and help her understand biting is anti-social. Haven't quite figured that one out yet.

It's a harder lesson to teach some dogs (and breeds) than others. Persistance may be the key.

I hope so. It's good to be reminded. I'm getting tired of walking out of the room, but if it's going to pay off down the track it will be worth it.

[poodlefan]

Botheration, you have a Lab... probably at the top of the list for mouthiness

If you want to speed things up .. put the pup on lead. Have OH or you hold the lead or tie it to something solid. You interact with puppy and remove yourself just out of reach if he mouths... it can help speed up the "no play with your mouth" lessons because you can keep going back or withdrawing quickly.

Praise good behaviour .. and give puppy opportunties to mouth appropriate objects. It's just an observation of mine but my belief is that dogs given the opportunity to chew bones etc seem less inclined to chew hands, feet etc - or at least less frantic about it. Chewing is important to skull and neck development so do give access to appropriate chewing objects.

[Nekhbet]

wow separation anxiety in a 9 week old ... I think a tad overdiagnosed there?

Pups will mouthe as long as you let them, and the more noise/erratic movements you add increase the dogs excitement.

When the pup grabs you simply slip your thumb in under the tongue and give the bottom jaw a little squeeze until the pup gives up. If the pup is already attached grab the top lips and squeeze them under the top teeth, again til the pup gives up.

Stops the behaviour quick smart - trick is to do it silently and calmly then walk away from the puppy for a little 10 minute settle down.

[persephone]

but he's still getting over separation anxiety...so I wonder whether this should be encouraged or discouraged?

Ok- IMO a baby puppy is still missing his mum/littermates- perfectly normal behaviour.

I am a fan of "start as you mean to go on"

If you want a pup to chew things on the rug- let him

If you want a pup to be independent - provide him with toys and secure places away from humans...

If you want a pup to be unsure, and clingy, and not want to make his own choices- keep changing the rules

Your boy is still only a baby- and trying to adjust to a whole new world.

I suggest making it easier for him by having the rules in place, and consistent, and non- negotiable.

As someone wiser than me said a day or two ago

"YOU buy the dog food- rules are non-negotiable" !

apologies if I have mis quoted :D

[Nekhbet]

Actually to have a well rounded dog I teach all my clients that there are some things in life that are non negotiable.

This also means that the dog just accepts them - it doesnt require the long term use of props and equipment like head halters.

Dog does not bite

Dog does not push owners around

Dog accepts anything its owner needs it to do without putting up a fight

The minute we put constraints on ourselves we put constraints on what our dogs can achieve. Sometimes a bit of stress is a good thing, dogs get over things and are more hardy then we give them credit for

[persephone]

Sometimes a bit of stress is a good thing, dogs get over things and are more hardy then we give them credit for

... and it makes them use their own resources...

[LoremIpsum]

Botheration, you have a Lab... probably at the top of the list for mouthiness

Arghhhh!

*pause for breath*

ARGHHHHHH!!!!!!

If you want to speed things up .. put the pup on lead. Have OH or you hold the lead or tie it to something solid. You interact with puppy and remove yourself just out of reach if he mouths... it can help speed up the "no play with your mouth" lessons because you can keep going back or withdrawing quickly.

What an excellent idea. I could clicker train with this too, huh? Click and treat for non-mouthy playing.

Praise good behaviour .. and give puppy opportunties to mouth appropriate objects. It's just an observation of mine but my belief is that dogs given the opportunity to chew bones etc seem less inclined to chew hands, feet etc - or at least less frantic about it. Chewing is important to skull and neck development so do give access to appropriate chewing objects.

Martha has lots of chew toys and stuffing one in her mouth before she gets to me does work. What I haven't given her though are many bones. I will get some tomorrow.

Thanks Poodlefan and everyone else. Great advice. Sorry Poochmad, I squeezed in on your thread, but I needed to hear all that too!

[anthony mazzeri]

The William E Campbell book I just bought says to suspend the pup off the ground a few inches until they calm down and stop. Don't say anything, just lift. One hand under the chest and one under the tummy, clear of their mouths. When they calm down, just gently let them down again. Just keep doing it until they learn that biting gets them a 'suspension'.

Sounds too easy.

[GSDhandler]

you have a lot o f options but as nekhbet has said be consistent. Koda does not bite me, she soft-mouths, as i taught her. she doesnt dare bite me ahrd. my OH was not cinisstant and so we are still having probs with her bitng him hard, but he doenst seem to get that he has to stick to one method.

the dog was easier to train than him

[LoremIpsum]

The William E Campbell book I just bought says to suspend the pup off the ground a few inches until they calm down and stop. Don't say anything, just lift. One hand under the chest and one under the tummy, clear of their mouths. When they calm down, just gently let them down again. Just keep doing it until they learn that biting gets them a 'suspension'.

Sounds too easy.

Oh my god. This works. Martha just swiveled her head around as if to say, "What gives, Crazy Lady?"

I have a feeling its efficacy might wear off when she comes to expect it.

GSD Handler, excellent point about consistency (and I know I have stuffed up there), but just out of interest, what method did you use?

[persephone]

The William E Campbell book I just bought says to suspend the pup off the ground a few inches until they calm down and stop. Don't say anything, just lift. One hand under the chest and one under the tummy, clear of their mouths. When they calm down, just gently let them down again. Just keep doing it until they learn that biting gets them a 'suspension'.

Sounds too easy.

Oh- I had forgotten that method!! ( and I have used it )

Yes- it is certainly a way to get pup focussed on other things for a moment

[GSDhandler]

The William E Campbell book I just bought says to suspend the pup off the ground a few inches until they calm down and stop. Don't say anything, just lift. One hand under the chest and one under the tummy, clear of their mouths. When they calm down, just gently let them down again. Just keep doing it until they learn that biting gets them a 'suspension'.

Sounds too easy.

Oh my god. This works. Martha just swiveled her head around as if to say, "What gives, Crazy Lady?"

I have a feeling its efficacy might wear off when she comes to expect it.

GSD Handler, excellent point about consistency (and I know I have stuffed up there), but just out of interest, what method did you use?

to start with when she was biting real hard i used nekhbet's sugestion of the squeeze, and i also took hold of her snout. when she came to realise that biting was bad, she softened up a bit, and i was able to go to the tried and tested yelp when they bite and ignore them. now she only puts her mouth around my hand and never bites. its her way of affection now.

EDIT: and yes i realise this contradicts the theory of consistency but when the behavour lessens you lessen the correction. same as i do at work.

Edited August 5, 2008 by GSDhandler

[poochmad]

When the pup grabs you simply slip your thumb in under the tongue and give the bottom jaw a little squeeze until the pup gives up. If the pup is already attached grab the top lips and squeeze them under the top teeth, again til the pup gives up.

Stops the behaviour quick smart - trick is to do it silently and calmly then walk away from the puppy for a little 10 minute settle down.

When I first read this, I thought it was a bit harsh...then I went out and he bit me, and lo and behold, I tried it and it worked! Only thing is, he jumped back and looked like he was going to bite again. So I quickly gave him his toy instead. I have noticed that his biting is becoming harder - if he follows the normal pattern (i.e. biting stage) at what stage can I expect him to stop? When he gets his adult teeth? And what age is that?

[Nekhbet]

GSDhandler dogs do not have enough logic. Its either everything or nothing for them - they can mouth or they cannot. There is no "oh you mouth like this, no softly, no not that hard...

Do not let the pup even put its mouth around your hand - you may think its affection but wait until the dog reaches adolscence you may be in for a suprise!

[nksyd]

I've got a 1 year old lab that we brought home from the rescue shelter a couple of weeks back. At first she was very submissive but as her confidence grows she is beginning to do what I believe is mouthing. Is 1 too old to try and train her out of this???

[GSDhandler]

GSDhandler dogs do not have enough logic. Its either everything or nothing for them - they can mouth or they cannot. There is no "oh you mouth like this, no softly, no not that hard...

Do not let the pup even put its mouth around your hand - you may think its affection but wait until the dog reaches adolscence you may be in for a suprise!

sorry but must disagree. know penty of people who have dogs trained well enough in this. IMHO this will not be a problem with her, as she does no longer put force onto her bite.

there is no intent. each dog is differnet i will agree.