Jamaica Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I did see training with shock collars to train dogs to keep away from snakes, and majority of the time the dog only had to be shocked once and the dog on its next test stayed well clear of the snake. In this case, did it not help in keeping the dog away from what could have been a fatal situation?? It did, i agree with you. people on dol are very quick to take you out of context though, everyone wants an opinion but will shoot you down in flames if you dont agree with them, my thought was to use it as a last resort kind of thing, but not everyone has the time to spend with ther dog to use other methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Jones Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Yes - and those who understand the e-collar training make those choices on an educated level, not with the simple and so far from the truth notion that it is "lazy" training; a "quick fix" or for those who can't train properly.Make your statements - but I wish you'd get a clue before you do. Either that, or acknowledge you don't understand (whether partly or fully) the training basis behind the good use of the e-collar and ask about it. There are numerous of us here who would be happy to entertain you with some sound, knowledgeable, factual and educational information if your mind is open to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Flip,I am going to have to tell it as it is.Your post especially the first line is one of ignorance and assumption. I really wonder about some who have posted anti E-Collar sentiments.To those people I ask these questions.Have you ever used such a collar?Have you ever been around tough,hard,rank dogs or just the pan licker that lies around the Kitchen? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I did see training with shock collars to train dogs to keep away from snakes, and majority of the time the dog only had to be shocked once and the dog on its next test stayed well clear of the snake. In this case, did it not help in keeping the dog away from what could have been a fatal situation?? It did, i agree with you. people on dol are very quick to take you out of context though, everyone wants an opinion but will shoot you down in flames if you dont agree with them, my thought was to use it as a last resort kind of thing, but not everyone has the time to spend with ther dog to use other methods. Not every dog is the same, though. Some dogs respond better to certain methods than others. Just because someone chooses to use an e-collar, it doesn't mean that they didnt' have time to use other methods, or that they don't know much about behaviour, or that they are trying to shock the dog into submission! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaica Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) having a big dog who would quicker bite and is head strong, i thought about e-collars, and wanted just to know if i was being lazy or if it was warrented, this just an experience i shared on this thread. everyone has opinions and posts there experiences for those genuine users of dol some we agree on and some we dont, but what you just posted is testiment to the disrespect you treat other dol users. Edited August 3, 2008 by flip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms James Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Erny think you need to get a life rather than psycho annalising everything that is written, pathetic that you would dismantle just an experience i shared on this thread. everyone has opinions and posts there experiences for those genuine users of dol some we agree on and some we dont, but what you just posted is testiment to the disrespect you treat other dol users. No one on dol does more work to educate people as to the right training method for their dog than Erny does. It's clear that you have no critical thinking abilities, or the desire to see anything beyond your own experience. If you want testament to disrespect, I highly recommend that you look over your own posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) people on dol are very quick to take you out of context though, everyone wants an opinion but will shoot you down in flames if you dont agree with them ... Flip .... you lash out with insults to some very good and experienced trainers here who have and do use e-collars to assist with the training of some dogs and with behaviour modification of others, by calling them "lazy" and by referencing to them as "people who don't know how to train properly". And you talk about people on DOL taking you out of context? And shooting you down in flames? Perhaps you didn't mean to insult them - but you have, even if it is the result of your acute ignorance to the very tool you denigrate. Have an opinion .... that's everyone's right. But be honest enough to acknowledge when you simply don't know about something. Edited August 2, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaica Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Flip,I am going to have to tell it as it is.Your post especially the first line is one of ignorance and assumption. I really wonder about some who have posted anti E-Collar sentiments.To those people I ask these questions.Have you ever used such a collar?Have you ever been around tough,hard,rank dogs or just the pan licker that lies around the Kitchen? Tony I assume alot but no disrespect intended,i do own a massive hard nose dog though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baifra Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Erny think you need to get a life rather than psycho annalising everything that is written, pathetic that you would dismantle just an experience i shared on this thread. everyone has opinions and posts there experiences for those genuine users of dol some we agree on and some we dont, but what you just posted is testiment to the disrespect you treat other dol users. You need to do some research!! Erny is always courteous, informative and tolerant. Never have I seen disrespect in her posts..... including this one!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Does anyone get the idea that a lot of people join DOL and WATCH for threads on e-collars and prongs to pop up? I am starting to think they are Trolls. Yes LM .... it crossed my mind too. Particularly the current political climate in "dog-laws" that we seem to be entering. But if this is the sort of argument that will be given against training tools that are proven in their excellence, there's only one thing they are showing up. And it's not the training tools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Flip,I am going to have to tell it as it is.Your post especially the first line is one of ignorance and assumption. I really wonder about some who have posted anti E-Collar sentiments.To those people I ask these questions.Have you ever used such a collar?Have you ever been around tough,hard,rank dogs or just the pan licker that lies around the Kitchen? Tony I assume alot but no disrespect intended,i do own a massive hard nose dog though What does the size of the dog have to do with training methods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamaica Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 assuming that every one knew as much as trainers knew then there wouldnt be any problem with e collars but as you being a good trainer would know that that there are alot of people who would use em incorrectly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I must second MS James comments regarding Erny.Flip you have done yourself no favors by insulting Erny.Insults destroy any credibility your post had,if it had any in the first place!!!! Erny, has helped many a Dog and many an owner!!!She recieve's nothing for the advice she give's to people on this site and the advice is given out of her good nature. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I am waiting for the petition that couples the legality of some tools with a ban on groups who dare even in this day and age ban the use of tools such as toys and food on publically owned grounds. You see, when lay people see us train with toys and food, a lot of barriers get broken down. That will get my signature. It must be just me just being tired from a busy day at dog training, but I don't think I understand what you mean here Denis_C. Can you or someone please clarify so that my fizzled mind can understand. I don't understand this part of DenisC's (previously Lab & Poodle etc) post either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Erny and Kelpie-I, I have to join the two of you inregard to the statement in question. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I haven't read all the posts (sorry) but I feel like I know what each poster will say because of the amount of time I have spent on DOL. I do not like E-collars but I have taken the time to learn about all training tools and for some dogs I do support their use. At this time in my experience with training dogs I have met one (1) dog that would have a better quality of life with E-collar training so for that reason I will support E-collar training. My only experience with E-collar training is the very limited amount I learnt at a K9 Force's seminar, and that taught me that you train your E-collar dog on the lowest stimulus that gets a reaction, you never go up a level or more as that would be cruel and that is not what it is about, most dogs worked on level one or two, which to us humans felt like ants crawling on us, if that. E-collar training K9force method was not cruel. I just wish that everyone could experience all methods of training with an experienced trainer of that particular feild and an open mind before they flame other methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonymc Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 Quote from Pax. just wish that everyone could experience all methods of training with an experienced trainer of that particular feild and an open mind before they flame other methods. Exactly Pax!!!!That is all we are asking people to do!!! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms James Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I have to admit, before I started training my guys I was one of those alarmist "oh my god those things look awful" type of people for training tools as simple as a check chain. If it hadn't been for trainers like Cosmolo & Erny showing me their correct use & the benefits they could bring with an integrated training plan, my DA boy Roggie would now have been put down & we would have gotten another dog & done the same mistakes again. Exactly who does that benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) assuming that every one knew as much as trainers knew then there wouldnt be any problem with e collars but as you being a good trainer would know that that there are alot of people who would use em incorrectly! Not to the extent of head collars, and check chains, which are hap-hazzardly available from any pet store and most supermarkets. People don't normally spend $700+ on a piece of training equipment unless they're dedicated to their dog and its training ..... so lessons are generally part of the process. These people don't want to get it wrong. Wish those who used other cheaper and readily available tools (including flat collars) would think twice as e-collar handlers generally do. Even some with little training methodology nouse can be unfair on their dogs and cause grave issues. But because this is not quite so tangible, they don't lend themselves to think about that until the problem is created. There are NOT a lot of people that I know who use the e-collar improperly. In fact, I know of no-one that does so. What stats are you basing your statement on, Flip? Edited August 2, 2008 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 (edited) I don't assume that everyone knows how to use an e collar- thats why i am a trainer and i teach them. Same as i do with a headcollar, clicker, harness or correction chain!! I ahve seen people mis use every piece of equipment under the sun- including the innocent looking harness- should we not allow them on dogs? Seeing as we're telling a few stories- here's one that may be of interest, i'll try to be brief. We adopted Georgie as an 12 mth old terrified individual- the worst fear i (as well as my OH- a more experienced trainer than i and another trainer with more experience than either of us) have ever seen in any dog ever. This dog was terrified of everything from walking up stairs, noises, movement and particularly people. Treats were useless as she would not eat, she was no more confident when the other dogs were around and panicked easily with no recovery- once she was scared she stayed that way for hours at a time. She had been through a number of other homes, one for over 3 months where they tried to positively resolve her issues with no success- she in fact worsened during this time. So fast forward to now- we have a dog that after alot of hard work, time and effort in training, good leadership AND a correction chain and an e collar (at different times) is vastly improved in every respect. We NEVER could have had her off lead without the e collar (and we don't need it on her now) and if she had never been off lead she would not have built up much of the confidence she now has which gives her a much happier life. I will take the 'easy' way out when it means i can have a dog live a wonderful life with confidence and happiness as Georgie does today. I will be 'lazy' when it means i can ease the stress a dog is feeling by making things clear to them. And i will enjoy my Georgie Porgie who now loves life like we always wanted her to. Edited August 2, 2008 by Cosmolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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