Shock Collars

[Kayne's Mum]

and if anyone thinks a clicker will do the same as an e collar they are very mistaken...

Why on earth would anyone even think this. Totally different tools. One is for training, and NO, I certainly don't think its a LAZY training tool.

Both you and the dog have to work to achieve the desired end result.

Anyway, this thread is not about clickers, nor about doggies playing ball, it's about e-collars. Why go :rolleyes: and bait others.

As for collars, that's the way life goes. Many tools & weapons were designed for Good purposes. Unfortunately, they do end up in the wrong hands.

[Erny]

I wasn't actually referring to me being bullied, more so for Flip... I have thicker skin than this...

Actually, Flip PM'd me and we've conversed that way a couple of times. I think she now appreciates the good info that is contained in this thread and apologised if what she wrote gave the wrong impression. I think all is ok with respect to that relationship :rolleyes:.

[ruthless]

and if anyone thinks a clicker will do the same as an e collar they are very mistaken...

Why on earth would anyone even think this. Totally different tools. One is for training, and NO, I certainly don't think its a LAZY training tool.

Both you and the dog have to work to achieve the desired end result.

Anyway, this thread is not about clickers, nor about doggies playing ball, it's about e-collars. Why go :rolleyes: and bait others.

As for collars, that's the way life goes. Many tools & weapons were designed for Good purposes. Unfortunately, they do end up in the wrong hands.

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?s=&a...t&p=2878880

[Jamaica]

When using a shock collar, what age would you start to use one if your dog is problematic, knowing different dogs age at different rates.

[MonElite]

When using a shock collar,

I personally wouldnt use a shock collar (can you please clarify what they are as Im not sure we are talking about the same piece equipment here), but I would use an ecollar, that gives low stimmulations

if your dog is problematic

you can use on on a non problematic dog too....

I think manufaturers say not less than 4 (or was it 6?) months.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Monelite

[Jamaica]

sry, i dont know why you would think to use one on a dog that was not problematic(forgive my ignorance if there are uses for them otherwise) but there are seven dogs here and only one i think needs one, (my first post on the subject stated lazy people used them but what was ment was i being lazy if i was going to use one, should i do the hard yards with the possability with no result!) keeping in mind that the dog im talking about is big strong fast and could bite, but on the other hand gentle and sensitive.

thinking id prefer not to get bit and use an ecollar

Edited August 3, 2008 by flip

[MonElite]

flip, you can start by watichg some videos by Denis Carthy, here is one

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...;hl=denis+carty

[Erny]

When using a shock collar, what age would you start to use one if your dog is problematic, knowing different dogs age at different rates.

Six months is the generally accepted "youngest age", Flip. However there are exceptions. As you say, breed and individuality within breed needs to be taken into account.

[Luke GSP]

Anyway, this thread is not about clickers, nor about doggies playing ball, it's about e-collars. Why go :D and bait others.

You are right it is not about clickers but earlier on in the thread one of the anti ecollar protestors claimed that you could stop a dog on a rampage just as efficiantly with a clicker.

[Luke GSP]

sry, i dont know why you would think to use one on a dog that was not problematic(forgive my ignorance if there are uses for them otherwise) but there are seven dogs here and only one i think needs one, (my first post on the subject stated lazy people used them but what was ment was i being lazy if i was going to use one, should i do the hard yards with the possability with no result!) keeping in mind that the dog im talking about is big strong fast and could bite, but on the other hand gentle and sensitive.

thinking id prefer not to get bit and use an ecollar

Your dog does not have to be "problematic" in the sense of having nightmare issues to use one, you may use it to increase focus for instance or to speed up a return/retrieve or raise the dogs sense of urgency whilst tackling an agility run. Very rarely do people use them in the old fashioned way of

dog does wrong = gets zapped (Avoidance method)

Try and think of it more as a tap on the shoulder than a smack on the bum! The best analogy I can give is that if you asked your child a question and they ignored you because they were watching telly would you A, tell them off or B, tap them on the shoulder to get their attention away from the tele and then ask again saying thankyou once they have completed the task? One of them is a punishment then command the other is a precursor to a command followed by praise once the desired behaviour is complete. (The escape method)

Before using any method of training including an ecollar I would discuss the behaviour that you are trying to correct/modify with a good behaviourist/trainer and the n formulate a suitable strategy to deal with it which may or may not use an ecollar but what ever it entails keep an open mind.

Edited August 3, 2008 by Luke GSP

[Erny]

... like others I have respect for you, but little for some others on here.

Gemibabe - thank you. But in all fairness, there are many good posts by others here that are designed to provide educational information or at least examples to demonstrate that the stim-collar is not the vile piece of equipment that you were lead to believe by the video clip you posted in your OP. I think they deserve respect too. :D

Edited for spelling

Edited August 4, 2008 by Erny

[Kavik]

Monelite, can I make a guess? :D

In the first video, before a drop when you are close to the camera, quite late in the video. That's the only time I can see a pause that looks like it might be an ecollar

[Guest Tess32]

Anyway, this thread is not about clickers, nor about doggies playing ball, it's about e-collars. Why go :D and bait others.

You are right it is not about clickers but earlier on in the thread one of the anti ecollar protestors claimed that you could stop a dog on a rampage just as efficiantly with a clicker.

That's just someone who obviously doesn't understand how the clicker works if they mean CLICK to make your dog suddenly turn away from a rabbit.

[Just Midol]

sry, i dont know why you would think to use one on a dog that was not problematic(forgive my ignorance if there are uses for them otherwise) but there are seven dogs here and only one i think needs one, (my first post on the subject stated lazy people used them but what was ment was i being lazy if i was going to use one, should i do the hard yards with the possability with no result!) keeping in mind that the dog im talking about is big strong fast and could bite, but on the other hand gentle and sensitive.

thinking id prefer not to get bit and use an ecollar

This is just the way I look at it.

The collar is either humane, or it isn't. It's humane imo. Since it is a humane training tool... Why should I use it as a last resort or only on problem dogs? If it was inhumane... I'd never use it, not even on problem dogs.

[Luke GSP]

Anyway, this thread is not about clickers, nor about doggies playing ball, it's about e-collars. Why go :D and bait others.

You are right it is not about clickers but earlier on in the thread one of the anti ecollar protestors claimed that you could stop a dog on a rampage just as efficiantly with a clicker.

That's just someone who obviously doesn't understand how the clicker works if they mean CLICK to make your dog suddenly turn away from a rabbit.

Spot on! it would appear that they understand clicker training about as well as they understand ecollars. ;) This entire thread looks like someone saw a video of an idiot got over emotional and under informed and then made the original post.

[denis_c]

"The collar is either humane, or it isn't. It's humane imo. Since it is a humane training tool... Why should I use it as a last resort or only on problem dogs? If it was inhumane... I'd never use it, not even on problem dogs."

Actually, this statement is not logically consistent. there are many other options too! But, this is outside of the topic. I would suggest that you have a look at a few books on Logic, often covered at the Undergraduate level in Maths or Philosophy. That would clear this misunderstanding up.

[Just Midol]

"The collar is either humane, or it isn't. It's humane imo. Since it is a humane training tool... Why should I use it as a last resort or only on problem dogs? If it was inhumane... I'd never use it, not even on problem dogs."

Actually, this statement is not logically consistent. there are many other options too! But, this is outside of the topic. I would suggest that you have a look at a few books on Logic, often covered at the Undergraduate level in Maths or Philosophy. That would clear this misunderstanding up.

How about you present an argument? Calling my post illogical does nothing other than make me dislike you. Why is it illogical?

Just an idea.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Lord Midol

[Kayne's Mum]

Anyway, this thread is not about clickers, nor about doggies playing ball, it's about e-collars. Why go and bait others.

You are right it is not about clickers but earlier on in the thread one of the anti ecollar protestors claimed that you could stop a dog on a rampage just as efficiantly with a clicker.

That's just someone who obviously doesn't understand how the clicker works if they mean CLICK to make your dog suddenly turn away from a rabbit.

LOL. Not many DO understand how a clicker works. They are used to aid train a dog to do s/thing specific and followed by a lot of praise and/or treat reward.

I know nothing about clickers when Kierah first came home. It's only with my gsd that we are both learning and enjoying clicker training.

IMO, I would not start using an e-collar too soon. Kierah is nearly 6 y.o.

In our case, the collar was our last opion. And NO, de-barking was not an option.

[Steve K9Pro]

K9: Any time I hear people pipe up with the term "shock collar" on a forum I suspect an agenda. Its like calling a car a "horseless carriage".

For those who think they are a lazy way of training, its a lot easier to be lazy than buying an e collar & training, you could simply not train at lay around, that would be easier?

Do e collars make training easier? Yes of course, I think that is supposed to be the goal of an training aid.

The collar in question is an anti bark collar. They are designed to cause discomfort in order to reduce/eliminate barking. In many cases dogs nuisance bark when alone, putting their own lives at risk through neighbour complaints.

When the council officer leaves you a destruction order, its either silence or dstruction, so I think the no bark collar is a good choice over death.

If we were talking about remote training collars, then the training method determines the level used. I have demonstrated my e collar training programs to many hundreds / thousands of people with not one comment on harshness or cruelty.

Levels are adjustable & with a little experience, they can produce results that are nothing sort of outstanding in very little time.

[rugerfly]

hmmmmm....If only breeders of small white dogs would give free barking collars with their puppies to clueless small white dog owners....