Walkies!

[LoremIpsum]

Hi all,

Martha is getting her 12 week injections soon THANK GOD and I can start walking her. She's really keen to get out and she's started that going mental think dogs do. (You know, running around in circles like a maniac.) I live near the most gorgeous parkland (Yarra Bend/Merri Creek area in Melbourne) with both on-leash and off-leash areas and lots of other dogs.

Because she's a labrador, and growing in front of my eyes, I'm very anxious about the risk of hip dysplasia. I do not want to over-exercise her, as this will increase her risk.

But I haven't got a clear idea of how much exercise is too much. Or how we start the whole "walking" experien.

My idea is to take her across to the park, find a quiet spot, and spend some time practicing walking (at heel) on the leash. (I've only just introduced the leash to her. She hates it. And I've never done it before, so I'm also learning how to teach her.) Also, some time practicing recall. But I'd also like to give her some time to socialise with other dogs and play off leash. Fifteen minutes? Half an hour? Also, should I let her play first and get it out of her system, so to speak? Or should free play and sniffing etc be a reward for good leash work?

Also, I know a lot of people say you should never practice recall unless you're SURE your dog will actually return — otherwise you teach them that they can ignore you. Her recall is great in the house and backyard, but I suspect that when she encounters other dogs it's going to be hard. How do I test it without failing? What do I do if she ignores me? I plan to take her well away from the road, by they way.

I know that some people don't let their dogs play with other dogs at all. I'd find that very hard to do, but are there reasons I should consider it?

Any other advice about walking would be great. I have carried her to the park to have a look around and it drives her crazy — she wants to sniff/mouth/run up to/jump on everything, everyone and everydog.

Oh, also, do I have to wait after her vaccinations or do they kick in straight away?

[Guest Tess32]

Just a reminder that it can and often does up to 14 days for the vacc to kick in

[persephone]

ust a reminder that it can and often does up to 14 days for the vacc to kick in smile.gif

seconding this

Keep practising onlead walking and obedience in the backyard-

[Just Midol]

Hi all,

Martha is getting her 12 week injections soon THANK GOD and I can start walking her. She's really keen to get out and she's started that going mental think dogs do. (You know, running around in circles like a maniac.) I live near the most gorgeous parkland (Yarra Bend/Merri Creek area in Melbourne) with both on-leash and off-leash areas and lots of other dogs.

Because she's a labrador, and growing in front of my eyes, I'm very anxious about the risk of hip dysplasia. I do not want to over-exercise her, as this will increase her risk.

But I haven't got a clear idea of how much exercise is too much. Or how we start the whole "walking" experien.

My idea is to take her across to the park, find a quiet spot, and spend some time practicing walking (at heel) on the leash. (I've only just introduced the leash to her. She hates it. And I've never done it before, so I'm also learning how to teach her.) Also, some time practicing recall. But I'd also like to give her some time to socialise with other dogs and play off leash. Fifteen minutes? Half an hour? Also, should I let her play first and get it out of her system, so to speak? Or should free play and sniffing etc be a reward for good leash work?

Also, I know a lot of people say you should never practice recall unless you're SURE your dog will actually return — otherwise you teach them that they can ignore you. Her recall is great in the house and backyard, but I suspect that when she encounters other dogs it's going to be hard. How do I test it without failing? What do I do if she ignores me? I plan to take her well away from the road, by they way.

I know that some people don't let their dogs play with other dogs at all. I'd find that very hard to do, but are there reasons I should consider it?

Any other advice about walking would be great. I have carried her to the park to have a look around and it drives her crazy — she wants to sniff/mouth/run up to/jump on everything, everyone and everydog.

Oh, also, do I have to wait after her vaccinations or do they kick in straight away?

1) Recall work, if she knows how to recall and chooses not to then you must always be in a position to correct her. You've taught her to recall under no distractions and now you need to retrain her recall under distraction. Same method, use a long line and teach her that even when there is something else she wants to do she HAS to return to you.

2) People don't like their dogs playing with others in parks because quite often the owners are clueless. They don't watch their dogs nor do they pick up on the signs of an impending dog fight. I'd avoid it and just socialise him/her with dogs you know.

I take my dogs out before their vaccines kick in. They need to be socialised - I consider it an acceptable risk, others don't and their dogs turn out fine. Personal choice.

Read these two (old) threads:

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=43479

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=117592

Edited July 31, 2008 by Lord Midol

[Bubbly]

I had a lot of the same questions :D my breeder was a big help in telling me how old her pups need to be before walks really start, but I'm getting a great dane - so I'm sure the reccomendations would be entirly different. Maybe ask your breeder what her dogs do best with?

As to recall, I have to disagree with Lord Midol. I'd never correct for ignoring me. If the dog is ignoring you it is because you haven't proofed the recall in that type of environment. I'm planning on following "The Levels" http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/%20Dog1/levels.html

as a basic training strategy with my pup. It gives specific instruction on how to start recall work all the way to a formal obediance with drop recall and everything in between, without using corrections. IMO the danger with corrections is that dogs are pretty smart and if they associate practicing recalls with corrections then they are even less inclined to listen to you. Personally, I think it's a dangerous method - after all you really need the dog to listen in the emergency situation when you have no ability to correct (dog got out and is running after a bunny toward the road) and they know it.

[Guest Tess32]

You can only use corrections when you're 100% sure that dog knows what is required and has done it in that situation before.

[Just Midol]

Learning Phase -> Correction Phase -> Proofing Phase

1) Recall work, if she knows how to recall and chooses not to then you must always be in a position to correct her. You've taught her to recall under no distractions and now you need to retrain her recall under distraction. Same method, use a long line and teach her that even when there is something else she wants to do she HAS to return to you.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Lord Midol

[Bubbly]

I understand that there are different methods of dog training and that people do use corrections and end up with the responses they want. I, personally, do not believe that corrections are a necessary part of training. Indeed, I think they can be extremely detrimental.

I'm not trying to start anything up here; I was just putting my 2 cent in and giving the OP a link to a training plan that outlines how not to use corrections AND proof a recall; since she was unsure as to how to get the puppies excellent at home skills to translate into park skills.

[LoremIpsum]

Uh, sorry to sound thick, but what IS a correction? Does that just mean repeating the exercise but doing it correctly? Or is it punishment?

Oh, and THANK YOU to everyone who is answering. Please keep it coming — I'm very keen to hear divergent views. Lord Midol, many thanks for those links. The socialisation one particularly has taught me a lot. I just assumed that free doggie playtime was a natural part of what dogs need.

Perhaps I should make it clearer what I want from Martha. I am a rambler, and I want her to be a companion to me on, well, rambles. I want a well-trained, focussed-on-me dog who heels with me on command, but I also want her to accompany me on bushwalks (where dogs are permitted, of course) during which she should stick close to me, but not heel.

Having read the socialisation thread Lord Midol linked to, I don't think I will join in the doggy free-for-all that takes place in my local park.

By the way, before you all despair of how thick I am and how much direction I need, remember this is my first puppy training experience. I ask lots of questions, but I'm a good learner and I'm soaking it all up!

[Dogsfevr]

Over playing as a young pup can also be just as harmful on joints.

As already pointed out many offleash parks often end up like a free for all with a few owners having no respect for the actual laws regarding offleash parks & there dogs behaviour ,Some people find it a great place.others have neded up with massive issues.

I dont go near them & my dogs are superb with others.

Socializing with other dogs doesnt mean offleash play its means knowing how to be respectful of both other dog & owner & this can be taught without going to the parks.

As you dog is still learning what its lead is take your time in training it to be respectful & listen.

There not stupid but we board many labs whose manners are simply shocking add that the power they have.There is nothing worse than a feral lab out of control

[Guest Tess32]

I'd recommend following Sue's program too - the one linked above. It is very thorough and you will end up with a dog capable of pretty much whatever you want.

[Bubbly]

Uh, sorry to sound thick, but what IS a correction? Does that just mean repeating the exercise but doing it correctly? Or is it punishment?

<snip>

By the way, before you all despair of how thick I am and how much direction I need, remember this is my first puppy training experience. I ask lots of questions, but I'm a good learner and I'm soaking it all up!

You're not thick! there's an awful lot of information out there for new puppy owners. I've been waiting for my coming pup for so long I've read > re-read, and confused myself so many times! lol. In general, the term correction means a punishment. By the description of what you want out of your pup I'd really recommend you read at least the intro to The Levels on the link I posted - Sounds like something that might be right up your alley. :p have fun with your puppy! and the new freedom the 12 week jabs give the two of you!!!

eta: forgot a word :D

Edited July 31, 2008 by Bubbly

[LoremIpsum]

I'm not trying to start anything up here; I was just putting my 2 cent in and giving the OP a link to a training plan that outlines how not to use corrections AND proof a recall; since she was unsure as to how to get the puppies excellent at home skills to translate into park skills.

And thank you for that Bubbly! That site looks amazing and I'm tackling it from the very beginning.

As I said above, I understand people have divergent views, and I want to hear as many as possible. There is more than one way to end up with a beautifully-trained and mannered dog, I'm sure, so I want to learn as much as I can before deciding which approach to take.

[Just Midol]

Uh, sorry to sound thick, but what IS a correction? Does that just mean repeating the exercise but doing it correctly? Or is it punishment?

Oh, and THANK YOU to everyone who is answering. Please keep it coming — I'm very keen to hear divergent views. Lord Midol, many thanks for those links. The socialisation one particularly has taught me a lot. I just assumed that free doggie playtime was a natural part of what dogs need.

Perhaps I should make it clearer what I want from Martha. I am a rambler, and I want her to be a companion to me on, well, rambles. I want a well-trained, focussed-on-me dog who heels with me on command, but I also want her to accompany me on bushwalks (where dogs are permitted, of course) during which she should stick close to me, but not heel.

Having read the socialisation thread Lord Midol linked to, I don't think I will join in the doggy free-for-all that takes place in my local park.

By the way, before you all despair of how thick I am and how much direction I need, remember this is my first puppy training experience. I ask lots of questions, but I'm a good learner and I'm soaking it all up!

You don't need to worry about corrections at 12 weeks. They come later. Some how I managed to forget how old it was :D

Correction = Punishment.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Lord Midol

[LoremIpsum]

Bubbly, we posted at the same time, but I can already see this is a great site. Can't believe all this info is free.

As for corrections/punishment, I still don't really understand. I ignore Martha when she does stuff I want her not to do (mainly ripping my flesh apart with her scissor-sharp teeth), but I don't think she'd know what a reprimand meant!

Over playing as a young pup can also be just as harmful on joints.

But how can I gauge when playing becomes OVERplaying? That's what I'm struggling with. And how can I gauge when exercising becomes over-exercising? At the moment, I just let her set the time limits.

Socializing with other dogs doesnt mean offleash play its means knowing how to be respectful of both other dog & owner & this can be taught without going to the parks.

Excellent point. I hadn't thought about it like that.

There not stupid but we board many labs whose manners are simply shocking add that the power they have.There is nothing worse than a feral lab out of control

I know, and that's exactly what I don't want. I want people to love her as much as I do!

Cheers for all your advice.

[Bubbly]

Bubbly, we posted at the same time, but I can already see this is a great site. Can't believe all this info is free.

As for corrections/punishment, I still don't really understand. I ignore Martha when she does stuff I want her not to do (mainly ripping my flesh apart with her scissor-sharp teeth), but I don't think she'd know what a reprimand meant!

For bite inhibition you can do a couple of things. Yelp like a puppy and act all hurt. Usually this stops a pup - they don't WANT to hurt you, they only want to play. Soon she'll down the intensity of her chomping down - then raise your criteria by yelping and acting hurt for lower and lower intensity bites until she "gums you to death." At this point you can stop letting her gnaw on you at all - only let her gnaw on HER toys while playing - not on you. If yelping and acting shocked and hurt doesn't work just remove yourself or remove her - all fun and play stops when she bites to hard. Start over in about 1 min at this age, any longer and she won't associate her biting with you leaving. Then follow the same sequence as above - get her to the point of gumming you before totally disallowing mouth play. This gives you a better chance that if she is ever pushed to bite (and every dog can be pushed into biting) that she won't bite down hard - she'll have the muscle memory of never biting down hard on human skin.

Over playing as a young pup can also be just as harmful on joints.

But how can I gauge when playing becomes OVERplaying? That's what I'm struggling with. And how can I gauge when exercising becomes over-exercising? At the moment, I just let her set the time limits.

The only help I can give here is if she starts acting tired - more whiny, bitey, cranky (like a little kid really) or you know she's tired because she usually passes out before this enforce a nap time/ play break.

Sounds like you're doing great - she must be so much fun!

[Dogsfevr]

Make a point of observing your pup at home during playtime.You will find your pup will have its mad times & then just flop ,you will also see its facial expression.Try to make a point of seeing how long pup lasts during these times of full on play before heading into slow down then sleep

When i have setter pups that age (we live on acre property) i go for small walks because it is a time to socialize to the outside world.Cars,bikes,people,noises etc etc.It is also mental/visual stimulation.

I generally will walk 4 house down & home because in that time they are focused & listening.This is the key time to make training work,once they get tired or bored they will switch off & do things not desired.

As for walking try a 15 min first.You also need to pay attention to your dogs feet(pads) as many arent use to tarmac & can get sore feet if over done.

When going to the park you can walk & then sit down & allow pup to watch whats happening.This is also part of training that they dont need to get over stimulated to everything & that calm behaviour is very desired & gets rewards.

You can simply sit out the front of your house for 10 mins whilst cars & things go past & allow dog to see/hear & smell what going on.

I help a friend show her labs & even with the babies in the ring they will concentrate so hard & then if a judge takes to long they will switch off & that is babies .

My setters are taught to lay down to play with little dogs.We have little dogs here aswell & the rules are very simple both sizes must be respectful .My 42 kg boy will lay down & allow all to play,climb over him.He is also 42 kg of shear power & can also play like a giant spaz but he nows the difference.

You often finds with walks they concentrate so hard they get tired quickly & you dont wan to be carrying home a heavy bundle :D so do short for awhile.

Also join an obedience club

[raeviel]

Hi Botheration,

I walk my new 14 week old schnauzer puppy around the Merri creek tracks and through the big leash free park off Nicholson st. If you think having another dog around as light socialisation might help with the training perhaps we could meet up. I think I'm going through exactly the same phase as you are in regards to training.

[Jigsaw]

This is a great page for socialisation points to tick off http://www.livingwithkidsanddogs.com/socialization.html

[Nekhbet]

This gives you a better chance that if she is ever pushed to bite (and every dog can be pushed into biting) that she won't bite down hard

eh when is a dog pushed to biting. Dogs dont bite or snap FULL STOP in my books. Even a tooth rake can be a lot for a small child. I've had kids try and prise my 63kgs DDBs mouth open and he wouldnt dare bite them.

Puppy at 12 weeks should not be biting anymore. When the pup grabs you either squeeze the lips over the tips of her top teeth until she gives up or the trick is the push your thumb under her tounge with your fingers under the bottom jaw until she also gives up.

hey presto. Pup learns biting is a no no. By the way the dog wont suddenly hate you or think you are prey when you squeal. Sorry but us humans are pretty bad at copying dog body language and hence when we try to do it the doggy way end up confusing the pup more. Above methods are pretty clear.

Edited July 31, 2008 by Nekhbet