Tracking And The Bush

[Julieanna]

Hi all,

I have owned german shepherd dogs (and a maremma, but that's a different kettle of dog altogether) for over twenty years. My current dog, Anna, is seven months old, and I am hoping to get right in to tracking with her. In fact, she's entered into a trial in August (Tasmania, Gretna, hi Pete, long time no see!). I have been receiving excellent advice from Jody, whose patience is matched only by her experience.

However, I'd like to discuss a couple of points that would only arise with people whose dogs live in the bush.

I live on a twenty-five acre property out of Hobart, that runs goats, horses, and a whacking great herd of wallabies. The hoppy things come up to the house every night, and Anna has been tracking them every morning since the day of her arrival. We also take long walks on country lanes and through the bush daily. She is a sophisticated, experienced tracker of wildlife. She uses a specific gait when she's on the scent; her nose glues itself to the ground, and she is capable of maintianing concentration for a considerable period. She also works tracks that I lay for her; what I've noticed is that my (artificial, obviously) tracks do not produce in her the same response as the wallaby trails. She has never caught an animal, so in that sense natural tracking has not been reinforced. The best way I can find of explaining it is to say that when I run her over tracks, she's willing, but 'being pollite' to please me. When tracking wildlife, she's a different dog, and I don't know how to transfer her skill to the artificial tracking environment.

Or, in other words, how do I make myself as attractive as last night's wallaby?

Julie

(Tasmania)

[Janba]

You need to make the reward at the end of the track very high value - higher thn the wallabies. A toy she loves that she gets a game with only at the track, or breakfast or dinner. One of my dogs had to track for her dinner to get her over hunting.

Also everytime she leaves the track and follows wallaby scent stop and command track. Don't let her follow the wallaby track. If she won't pick up the track take her further down and see if she picks it up if only for the last few metres. She has to always get to the end.

[Julieanna]

You need to make the reward at the end of the track very high value - higher thn the wallabies. A toy she loves that she gets a game with only at the track, or breakfast or dinner. One of my dogs had to track for her dinner to get her over hunting.

Also everytime she leaves the track and follows wallaby scent stop and command track. Don't let her follow the wallaby track. If she won't pick up the track take her further down and see if she picks it up if only for the last few metres. She has to always get to the end.

Hi Janba,

I wasn't being clear. Anna's not leaving the track to follow wallaby; it's rather that when tracking off her own bat, as we wander through the bush, she shows a different demeanour (and higher level of concentration/competence) than I see when she's in harness. On laid tracks she does complete her task, marks objects, etc, but her body language and degree of concentration are different. After all, the dog knows quite well that she's tracking the silly tart that's standing behind her.

The reward currently on offer is fried bacon, and she never sees this at any other time. Hell, I'd track myself, for that!

The spontaneous tracking is not in conflict with the constructed tracking; I'd just like to be able to stimulate her to reproduce the skill I see on wallaby tracks, when she's in harness.

I only know two other tracking dogs (one is her littermate), and they both live in suburban environments, so it's hard to be comparative. I've been taking Anna into the paddocks and bush since she was eight weeks old; she's been amusing herself by tracking bunnies, bandicoots and the like since she was a waddliing puppy. If I could but get her to reproduce that special gait and body language when in harness, she'd break world records.

I will try getting her to track for her supper; what I need is that 'lightbulb moment', as I don't think she's got it quite yet.

Thank you for your help,

Julie

[Jibba]

Has she ever tracked for you at the end of the track with someone else handling her?

That is how i got my boys motivation up, and also dont feed her dinner one night and make her track the next day for it, if she doesnt track with intensity leave it another day, this will make her work for her dinner. Dont feed her until she tracks correctly.

[Erny]

I wasn't being clear. Anna's not leaving the track to follow wallaby; it's rather that when tracking off her own bat, as we wander through the bush, she shows a different demeanour (and higher level of concentration/competence) than I see when she's in harness. On laid tracks she does complete her task, marks objects, etc, but her body language and degree of concentration are different. After all, the dog knows quite well that she's tracking the silly tart that's standing behind her.

Julie - going by what you've written it sounds to me like she is "in drive" when she is tracking the wallabies, but not so when she is performing a constructed tracking exercise. Have you tried working her up to her tracking routine "in drive"?

I'm sure there is a somewhat lengthy but very informative thread on "drive work" in the training forum .... by K9 Force. Possible worth your while reading if you're not sure how to go about building drive and training in drive to suit your (and your dog's) needs.

There is a difference between "food exchange" and "drive".

Edited July 19, 2008 by Erny

[Julieanna]

I wasn't being clear. Anna's not leaving the track to follow wallaby; it's rather that when tracking off her own bat, as we wander through the bush, she shows a different demeanour (and higher level of concentration/competence) than I see when she's in harness. On laid tracks she does complete her task, marks objects, etc, but her body language and degree of concentration are different. After all, the dog knows quite well that she's tracking the silly tart that's standing behind her.

Julie - going by what you've written it sounds to me like she is "in drive" when she is tracking the wallabies, but not so when she is performing a constructed tracking exercise. Have you tried working her up to her tracking routine "in drive"?

I'm sure there is a somewhat lengthy but very informative thread on "drive work" in the training forum .... by K9 Force. Possible worth your while reading if you're not sure how to go about building drive and training in drive to suit your (and your dog's) needs.

There is a difference between "food exchange" and "drive".

Erny,

Thank you for putting the behaviour into words better than I could myself. That's exactly what is happening! I'm new to tracking, and my ignorant opinion is that she's showing enormous promise when spontaneously tracking, given that she's just seven months old. I shall certainly do the reading you've recommended.

If only I can harness all this talent for the forces of good!

Julie

(Tasmania)

[denis_c]

Hi

There are many reasons why a dog might show "more drive" or more arousal free tracking some wombats rather than tracking a human. It may well be something other than a drive issue.

Here is just a few

1) Is the dog comfortable in it's harness or equipment?

2) Do you shut up when tracking the dog, do you get the message across that it is your dog's show not yours?

3) This is a biggie Are the foundations there? Does your dog truely know what is required of it when tracking humans? You might be suprised.

4) Has the dog tracked in this environment before?

5) Have you got handling skills to match your dogs? May be your dog needs you to grow better skills.

When I did track 4 with my first dog, he snagged a branch which caused him to suddenly halt, and me to fall.

He was disorientated and so was I . Being a high drive dog, he just looked and looked and looked for the track, but in the wrong direction.

I was too dumb to get him back to where we fell.

6)Is your style of obedience training affecting his/her reationship with you and hence tracking?

When free tracking , a dog just follows in a relatively un focused way scents that are interesting. Human tracking,

it is a whole lot more focused and requires a good deal of concentration. It is like listening for a faint note in the middle of noise. Sometimes dogs need some maturity for this. Others don't.

While drive is a good model for tracking, have a look at what Steve White has to say, and golden oldies like Tracking Dog by Johnstone.

All address the issue that you speak off.

Fast focused tracking requires drive plus practice plus a switched on brain.

Despite any of this, tracking a fast moving dog that knows what it is doing is an exilarating feeling. Time is not of the essence,

BUT I can tell you that it does not hurt to know that your dog is one of the fastest around....

Denis Cody

[Tonymc]

Julieanna,in the simulated tracking what is she actually tracking? Tony

[Julieanna]

Hi

There are many reasons why a dog might show "more drive" or more arousal free tracking some wombats rather than tracking a human. It may well be something other than a drive issue.

Here is just a few

1) Is the dog comfortable in it's harness or equipment?

2) Do you shut up when tracking the dog, do you get the message across that it is your dog's show not yours?

3) This is a biggie Are the foundations there? Does your dog truely know what is required of it when tracking humans? You might be suprised.

4) Has the dog tracked in this environment before?

5) Have you got handling skills to match your dogs? May be your dog needs you to grow better skills.

When I did track 4 with my first dog, he snagged a branch which caused him to suddenly halt, and me to fall.

He was disorientated and so was I . Being a high drive dog, he just looked and looked and looked for the track, but in the wrong direction.

I was too dumb to get him back to where we fell.

6)Is your style of obedience training affecting his/her reationship with you and hence tracking?

When free tracking , a dog just follows in a relatively un focused way scents that are interesting. Human tracking,

it is a whole lot more focused and requires a good deal of concentration. It is like listening for a faint note in the middle of noise. Sometimes dogs need some maturity for this. Others don't.

While drive is a good model for tracking, have a look at what Steve White has to say, and golden oldies like Tracking Dog by Johnstone.

All address the issue that you speak off.

Fast focused tracking requires drive plus practice plus a switched on brain.

Despite any of this, tracking a fast moving dog that knows what it is doing is an exilarating feeling. Time is not of the essence,

BUT I can tell you that it does not hurt to know that your dog is one of the fastest around....

Denis Cody

Hi Denis,

I'll answer the questions in order.

1: Yes.

2: I keep my mouth shut, and concentrate on reading the dog. The only time I speak is when I praise her for indicating an article, and at the end of the track, when we have a fried bacon party and a game of stick.

3: The biggie indeed. I don't think she does.

4: We're using the only environment she knows: grazed and ungrazed paddocks on my own and my neighbour's properties. She knows why we are going to these places, and can't get to the start quick enough.

5: I'm beginning with tracking; my skills could well be a problem. Haven't hung myself or the dog on the line, though. I try to go at an even pace, and keep out of her way.

6: Our obedience training is clicker/positive reinforcement. She gives every indication of actively enjoying obedience games. From the time she was very small, we've played 'hide and seek' in the bush: I would allow her to get a little bit ahead, and duck behind a bush or whatever. She has never failed to find me, and it remains a favourite game. She is my fourth german shepherd; I've trained them all, but this is my first excursion into tracking. Like my previous dogs, she lives in the house, sleeps beside my bed, and has a balance of obedience, on and off lead exercise (6-8km/day), tracking, and trips to town for the good of her moral development. If she's unhappy, she's doing a damned good job of hiding it.

Your comment about unfocused free scent tracking precisely illustrates my dilemma: this is what she does not do. When free tracking, she is completely focused, precise and determined, over varying terrain, occasionally through water, and for long periods at a stretch. I've not had a young dog display this behaviour before; you'd think she was channelling somebody's prize wallaby hound.

Thank you for your input; I'll think over all you've said, and review my methods. The only thing I can't promise to do is re-read mr Johnston's book. His breadth of knowledge is humbling, but I'm afraid I'm crosseyed after about five pages.

Thanks again,

Julie

[Julieanna]

Julieanna,in the simulated tracking what is she actually tracking?

Hi Tony,

The tracks are laid either by myself (most frequently), or by my friend, who owns Anna's littermate.

I've considered dragging roadkill through the bush, but I know she already knows how to track that.

In the very early stages of her training I used to be at the end of the trail, but I no longer have access to anyone who can run her for me.

Julie

[Tonymc]

Juileanna,what would the simulated course be like and what would she be tracking in the comp? Tony

[Julieanna]

Juileanna,what would the simulated course be like and what would she be tracking in the comp?

Hi Tony,

In the tracking trial the track will be laid by my 'known tracklayer' - my friend who owns Anna's brother. We'll be laying tracks for each other, in fact.

The track will be laid over open grazing country, I believe, which is the sort of country we work in practise.

Julie

[Erny]

Hey Julieanna ..... to finish off quotations, you need to ensure the code "" (excluding the " symbols) is added to the end of the section you're quoting.

:wink:

Edited July 19, 2008 by Erny