labsrule Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 My 10 year old black lab boy Tournie who I adopted a couple of months ago has been diagnosed with Entropian & my vet has recommended corrective surgery. Just wandering if any DOLERS have had an older dog that has had this surgery and what was the outcome? Also did your vet perform the surgery or a veterinary eye specialist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shmoo Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 PM Peibe on the forum. She rescues Shar Peis and knows a lot about this surgery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Common procedure for Shar Pei. My boy had it done top and under eye on both eyes at 20 months. He had stitches for 10 days and bucket collar. My vet performed the surgery but he is a Shar Pei specialist vet. The bucket on my boy's head was a bigger annoyance for him than the surgery itself. Peibe will have more to tell you I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Had my pug boy done when he was about 4 and have been through the operation with another few rescues. It will stop any further pigmentation occuring but it's the eye drops that you use afterwards that take the pigmentation that is already there away. Normal vets do know how to perform the surgery but they usually like to send you to an eye specalist to get the procedure done. Here in Melbourne there are two main eye specalists with one of them charging nearly double the amount for the same surgery so it may pay to shop around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garloch Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 You mention the bucket-head look that was more annoyance than the op itself. I've seen an inflatable collar that is supposed to be better than the traditional bucket or fancollar. Maadipets site. Anyone used this device before?? I'd love an opinion from someone who has used them. It seems like a good thing to have in the dog 1st aid kit, but its a bit pricey, compared to the normal ones the vet sells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Had my pug boy done when he was about 4 and have been through the operation with another few rescues. It will stop any further pigmentation occuring but it's the eye drops that you use afterwards that take the pigmentation that is already there away.Normal vets do know how to perform the surgery but they usually like to send you to an eye specalist to get the procedure done. Here in Melbourne there are two main eye specalists with one of them charging nearly double the amount for the same surgery so it may pay to shop around. I'm a bit confused here. What does pigment have to to with entropion. Isn't entropion about eyelashes growing inwards and rubbing on the eye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badboyz Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I would presume she means ulceration on the eye which causes a cloudy effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanglen Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Hi there, Entropian is not uncommon in labradors but in a rescue of that age I would be concerned that maybe it was secondary rather than primary. A secondary entropian can be caused by chronic irritation such as uveitis or eyelid inflammation and then cause swelling and the rolling. In this situation the surgery will cause ectropian (outwards rolling of the eyes) when the inflammation settles down, so with all the older rescues in this boat I try at least 2-4 weeks of oral anti-inflamm's and topical eye ointment prior to deciding on any surgery. Heaps of them reduce and avoid the surgery. That being said, if he has primary entropian and it has been left until he was 10 yars old I suspect his eyes might be a real mess and really need the surgery! Any photo's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labsrule Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Many thanks everybody for your replies and suggestions, much appreciated and I will PM Peibe as well Hi there,Entropian is not uncommon in labradors but in a rescue of that age I would be concerned that maybe it was secondary rather than primary. A secondary entropian can be caused by chronic irritation such as uveitis or eyelid inflammation and then cause swelling and the rolling. In this situation the surgery will cause ectropian (outwards rolling of the eyes) when the inflammation settles down, so with all the older rescues in this boat I try at least 2-4 weeks of oral anti-inflamm's and topical eye ointment prior to deciding on any surgery. Heaps of them reduce and avoid the surgery. That being said, if he has primary entropian and it has been left until he was 10 yars old I suspect his eyes might be a real mess and really need the surgery! Any photo's? My vet thinks he may have had this condition all his life, poor bugger and I wouldn't be surprised as his owners didn't want him when he found his way to the Pound, very overweight and suffering bad arthritis both conditions he is currently been treated for. My concern is that the Vet said that the surgery may not fix the problem, and whilst I am a bit concerned because of his age, I would like to try and give him some relief from this condition, particularly if he has had it all his life, the irritation must be hell for the poor boy. I went to take a close up photo of him and my batteries are flat, so have just put in the recharger and will post one later today. His eyes are watery and constantly weeping tear like substance and he has tear stains and his eyes droop downwards. My vet can do the surgery, but I am wandering because of his age whether it would be better to get a referral from my vet to see a veterinary eye specialist first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanglen Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Poor man, but just quickly eyes don't droop downwards with entropian, they roll inwards. Drooping down is ectropian and quite a different condition. Shall check the net later for a photo, and yes if ever in doubt a specialist is always preferable to at least have a consult and find out all the options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Had my pug boy done when he was about 4 and have been through the operation with another few rescues. It will stop any further pigmentation occuring but it's the eye drops that you use afterwards that take the pigmentation that is already there away.Normal vets do know how to perform the surgery but they usually like to send you to an eye specalist to get the procedure done. Here in Melbourne there are two main eye specalists with one of them charging nearly double the amount for the same surgery so it may pay to shop around. I'm a bit confused here. What does pigment have to to with entropion. Isn't entropion about eyelashes growing inwards and rubbing on the eye? The pigementation is what occurs from the irritation of the eyelashes rubbing on the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labsrule Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 Poor man, but just quickly eyes don't droop downwards with entropian, they roll inwards. Drooping down is ectropian and quite a different condition. Shall check the net later for a photo, and yes if ever in doubt a specialist is always preferable to at least have a consult and find out all the options. OK here are some photos I took tonight, when I could get him to be still enough as everytime I sat down to take the photo he wanted to plonk his fat bum on my lap Anyway best I can do, so hopefully they will give you an idea on his eye condition/eye shape - tks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labsrule Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 and another couple of photos - Poor boy looks so sad, but he is really isn't he is such a happy boy, but the eyes drooping make him look sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Had my pug boy done when he was about 4 and have been through the operation with another few rescues. It will stop any further pigmentation occuring but it's the eye drops that you use afterwards that take the pigmentation that is already there away.Normal vets do know how to perform the surgery but they usually like to send you to an eye specalist to get the procedure done. Here in Melbourne there are two main eye specalists with one of them charging nearly double the amount for the same surgery so it may pay to shop around. I'm a bit confused here. What does pigment have to to with entropion. Isn't entropion about eyelashes growing inwards and rubbing on the eye? The pigementation is what occurs from the irritation of the eyelashes rubbing on the eye. Are you sure? The rubbing causes ulceration which can lead to scarring but what does this have to do with pigmentation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peigirl Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Labsrule it is still a bit hard to see from the pics but the lower lids definitely look swollen. To give the poor boy some relief until you sort out surgery I would use some Lacri-lube - this is regular human grade eye lubricant you buy from the chemist. It has the consistency of vaseline. Put a dollop on the end of your finger and glenty rub over the surface of the eye. He will blink it in. There is no active ingredient as such so use liberally ~ say 3 times a day and hopefully it will give him some relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 It is a very simple procedure and any regular vet can do it. It usually just involves cutting small oval of skin out from underneath the eye and stitching the two edges back together, which tightens the skin under the eye and pulls the eye lid outwards away from the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labsrule Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) Labsrule it is still a bit hard to see from the pics but the lower lids definitely look swollen.To give the poor boy some relief until you sort out surgery I would use some Lacri-lube - this is regular human grade eye lubricant you buy from the chemist. It has the consistency of vaseline. Put a dollop on the end of your finger and glenty rub over the surface of the eye. He will blink it in. There is no active ingredient as such so use liberally ~ say 3 times a day and hopefully it will give him some relief. Thank you - I will get some of this tomorrow not sure how receptive he will be to it though as had a real battle on my hands with him trying to rinse his ears out with Malaseb due to an ear infection he had as he can be a real handful when you try to administer any treatment and had to virtually wrestle him to the ground :D as he is very stubborn, even for the Vet He may have had a bad experience with being rough handled in the past. Edited July 18, 2008 by labsrule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Had my pug boy done when he was about 4 and have been through the operation with another few rescues. It will stop any further pigmentation occuring but it's the eye drops that you use afterwards that take the pigmentation that is already there away.Normal vets do know how to perform the surgery but they usually like to send you to an eye specalist to get the procedure done. Here in Melbourne there are two main eye specalists with one of them charging nearly double the amount for the same surgery so it may pay to shop around. I'm a bit confused here. What does pigment have to to with entropion. Isn't entropion about eyelashes growing inwards and rubbing on the eye? The pigementation is what occurs from the irritation of the eyelashes rubbing on the eye. Are you sure? The rubbing causes ulceration which can lead to scarring but what does this have to do with pigmentation? That's exactly what I thought too peigirl. One of my old Rotties had entropion and had surgery on both eyes. There was no issue or even any mention of pigmentation but she was tested many times to see if her eyes had developed an ulcer before the surgeries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puggy_puggy Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Ohh his eyes roll outwards. Totally different from them rolling inwards and the hairs irritating his corneas. He is likely to have dry eye because he can't close his eyes properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanglen Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 It's hard to see in the photo's as he is so far away but they do look sore. Personally if he has problems with his ears too, I feel it makes it lots more likely that it has a secondary inflammatory commonent. Does he have any ulceration or evidence of? Surely by 10 years old if he has had chronic entropian, he would have scarring already? The surgery does very much sounds simple but it's a lot harder to correct if too much skin is taken out and so is quite fiddly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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