SamanthaGSD Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 G'Day Fellow Forumites, I have received excellent help in other parts of the forum, so are looking for help here. Our 9wk old GSD needs to go to puppy school needs to be multible breed type. Options are: Certificate IV trainer, 5 week course located from Delta website: http://www.deltasocietyaustralia.com.au/cg...wsouthwales.htm or Positive reinforcement training, Association of pet dog trainers, 5 week course: http://www.positivepawsdt.com/ Both have there "restrictions" that is days available and or distance. I can work around either issue hopefully. Your thoughts and or recommendations please. Regards, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Where are you located? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 (edited) Kathy Romer (delta society page) ran Delta's one at a vet in Blacktown. I was very happy with her and she really knew what she was talking about, unfortunately the actual class itself wasn't great as it was only Delta, my sister's Amstaff (who she played with regularly anyway) and a pom x malt who was too scared to come out of hiding. I lost my Cody while I was going there and she was a great support (as an added bonus ) She was actually the person who introduced me to the Association of pet dog trainers so is possibly listed on there too. She breeds dobes (or used to) and is involved in the obedience and schutz world so I imagine she would have a fair bit of experience with GSDs and could help with your problems. Have you spoken to the local vets about who runs theirs? I wouldn't have known that my vet actually got accredited trainers in unless I asked, I just assumed they did it themselves. Also according to that Kathy is located in North Sydney, without asking you don't know exactly where they travel to. Edited July 3, 2008 by DeltaCharlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sezy Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 The APTD one looks good. I have met some great delta trainers and I have also met some that are bad. APTD all you had to do was pay the right fee to be listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke GSP Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 G'Day Fellow Forumites,I have received excellent help in other parts of the forum, so are looking for help here. Our 9wk old GSD needs to go to puppy school needs to be multible breed type. Options are: Certificate IV trainer, 5 week course located from Delta website: http://www.deltasocietyaustralia.com.au/cg...wsouthwales.htm or Positive reinforcement training, Association of pet dog trainers, 5 week course: http://www.positivepawsdt.com/ Both have there "restrictions" that is days available and or distance. I can work around either issue hopefully. Your thoughts and or recommendations please. Regards, Rob Rob, What are you hoping to achieve from attending a puppy pre school? I am not trying to be an Ahole by asking the question by the way, just trying to get a feel for what you are trying to achieve or attain by/whilst attending one? Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamanthaGSD Posted July 3, 2008 Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 I am located in Picton NSW. The local course does not really fit in time wise (Positive Paws), if it is the "better" of the two courses then so be it. What am I trying to achieve? Mainly basic obedience (sit, stay, come etc.) more importantly socialization and helping with/dealing with her play biting and jumping. My wife and children dont like to "read" training out of a book, they prefer more to see and do. Luke you are not being an AHOLE at all, all comments are welcome, this is a forum I am going to get replies I like and dont like, thats life! As with any "child" you want what is best for them, starting off on the right foot so to speak. I have already toilet trained Samantha, she also sits on command and comes about 50% of the time, I am blessed that she is a very smart and inquisitive puppy. It is not about which course is cheaper etc. I want someone that is REALLY going to help/train not just someone that is out to make money if you know what I mean. Please keep the replies coming. Thank you all for your time and input. Regards, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 (edited) Puppy preschool is really about the owner learning about their pup. There is some socialisation for the puppies and if it's done at a vets familiarity with the vet clinic (weighing, going into a clinic room, etc). My preference would be a preschool where the pups do not have a free for all but rather controlled contact. They don't need to be rolling around on the floor having a puppy brawl!!! It's about you learning how to train your dog, dealing with problems like nipping, health, grooming etc. Ask who exactly will be running the course and the person's qualifications. Ask how they run the class, how many puppies in the class (preferably no more than 5). Go with your gut feeling - if you don't like it you can always be a puppy preschool dropout and find one you do like! ETA: Is there a GSD club in Picton or the Southern Highlands? It might be worth asking them or inquiring on the GSD thread here. Edited July 3, 2008 by Jigsaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valby Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I have been taking my Amstaff to a Delta pp. I have found it great, especially with a boisterous dog. Everything is carefully assessed with each dogs behaviour before they decide who plays with who. So far the bigger dogs have only played on lead, which is alot less stressful for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwm Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 My first puppy preschool I went to with our local vet. It was the worst thing for my puppy, and we dropped out in frustration after 2 or 3 visits. It was basically a free for all with lots of talking more about care etc than anything. I hadn't had a pup for 16 or more years and I don't think there was such a thing as puppy preschool back then, so we were basically fairly ignorant about what to expect/look for. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. The next one I went to was brilliant. It was run by a different vet, but by a delta trained instructor, for the most part it was about learning to walk beside you on the leash, sit, stay, come. It just provides you with good groundwork - but you need to ensure you keep up with the training, as with anything. the only trouble was, because my puppy had been exposed to the 'free for all' type mentality in the first instance, she felt that every meeting where there was a group of dogs meant only one thing...play. So proceeded to just whinge and whine the whole time, so do choose cautiously and wisely. If you can, I'm sure most 'reputable' ones will allow you to go and watch a class, so that may be a good option for you to be able to see if it's going to be right for you and your pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke GSP Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Personally i would not take my puppy to a pre school in case of a possible incident that might take place at such a formative age. All you need at that age is one incident with a less than confident pup and it could be ruined! I would socialise it myself by taking it to other places/walks/strange houses but very controlled, no strange or unknown dogs. It is your job to make sure that the puppy feels safe in your presence and the only way to do is to make sure that you control the environment. you must lead it in to situations that it comes out of feeling like it was a positive experiance and hence it will trust you because you have proven yourself to have sound judgement. You cannot exhert that level of environmental control at a puppy pre school, you are relying on other people to make sure that your dog has a positive experiance and sadly in my experiance most people don't give a rats if there puppy jumps all over yours as theirs was "only playing" or my favorite is"of course they had a fight theres no need to overreact thats what puppies do!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke GSP Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Personally i would not take my puppy to a pre school in case of a possible incident that might take place at such a formative age. All you need at that age is one incident with a less than confident pup and it could be ruined! I would socialise it myself by taking it to other places/walks/strange houses but very controlled, no strange or unknown dogs. It is your job to make sure that the puppy feels safe in your presence and the only way to do is to make sure that you control the environment. you must lead it in to situations that it comes out of feeling like it was a positive experiance and hence it will trust you because you have proven yourself to have sound judgement. You cannot exhert that level of environmental control at a puppy pre school, you are relying on other people to make sure that your dog has a positive experiance and sadly in my experiance most people don't give a rats if there puppy jumps all over yours as theirs was "only playing" or my favorite is"of course they had a fight theres no need to overreact thats what puppies do!" SamGSD have a look on K9forces website at the development section before youu make any decisions heres the site address http://www.k9force.net/index.html?row2col2=develop.html I don't know anyone with a more comprehensive knowledge of all things dog than Steve Luke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 You are an experienced handler though Luke. I teach puppies at Croydon (4 months +) the difference between the puppies that go through puppy preschool and those that haven't is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valby Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 This why I like my current pp. The dogs are not allowed to play off lead only under strict supervision on-lead. Having a dog that does the boisterous playing this works really well. I have experienced more negative experiences walking my dogs i.e. off-lead aggressive dogs running up to us. So much so that I took my 1 year old Lhasa back to pp for a second time because she became so fearful of big dogs. She is now fine. The first pp I took Halston (Amstaff) too they tried to alpha roll him for playing roughly so I understandably ignored the instructor and did not return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke GSP Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 You are an experienced handler though Luke. I teach puppies at Croydon (4 months +) the difference between the puppies that go through puppy preschool and those that haven't is amazing. Jules p I know wht you mean about the difference but to me the risks are to high with PP style socialisation. I am a massive believer in socialisation but, in a very controlled manner whilst in a puppies formative years and especially during it's fearful stages. To me socialisation is more about introducing a dog to the world that you feel is safe rather than "Socialising" with other puppies. Personally I would recomend that a new handler attends a Pre school without a puppy to gain skills that will help them raise/train the pupy in the future. You would probably feel a bit of a tool at first but the handler would be gaining the greatest asset of all, knowledge. This is much safer than risking your puppies perception of your leadership or judgement. IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 Depends on the puppy pre school I guess Luke. My club has a great one. Puppies are let off in a very controlled manner and if there are very timid pups they are put in another area. My border, Brock, ended up in the quiet puppy area lol. The rest of the time it is very basic obedience stuff. They do a bit of going through tunnels etc. The pups then usually move on to puppy class together and are such good friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Willow Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 I can fully understand your concerns Luke, and your puppy is very lucky to have such a careing owner, but as a puppy pre-school trainer, I am *unbeleivably* careful about what does & doesn't happen in my classes. Some PPS`are better than others, and I wouldn't discount all of them.....it's worth doing reseach about the ones in your own area before deciding on one, and yes, you are right, it's a very important stage in their life....get the right PPS & your puppy will have very good foundations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke GSP Posted July 4, 2008 Share Posted July 4, 2008 (edited) I can fully understand your concerns Luke, and your puppy is very lucky to have such a careing owner, but as a puppy pre-school trainer, I am *unbeleivably* careful about what does & doesn't happen in my classes. Some PPS`are better than others, and I wouldn't discount all of them.....it's worth doing reseach about the ones in your own area before deciding on one, and yes, you are right, it's a very important stage in their life....get the right PPS & your puppy will have very good foundations. Willow, I haven't got an issue with someone taking the pup to a PP I just see it as risking alot at that age, one bad experience could ruin a puppy that would have been fine otherwise, it can also turn what was a timid but sound puppy in to a fear agressive bag of nerves if it goes wrong. I believe that most PP trainers and PP schools are on the whole great, the issue for me personally is that it is a situation that is pretty much out of the handlers/pecieved Alphas hands. Even if there is not an imediate fear response or conflict/dominance from another pup, how could it affect your pupif it watched another puppy in stress? As I say I don't have a problem with the trainers, I have an issue with the situation or more to the point the lack of environmental control that a handler can exhert whilst in that situation. It's apersonal choice to go the PP and I just feel that owners/handlers should be aware of the possible dangers of this kind of situation at what is arguably one of the most critical points in your pups perceptual development. Edited July 4, 2008 by Luke GSP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 My advice is that if money is no object, then private training is the best option. There are some good professional trainers in Sydney that will travel to your area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 I'd try and view a class first to get an idea of the methods used. I'd try and avoid a "Free For All" or "Puppy Punch-up" situation. I took Pele (Bull Terrier) to PP when she was 8 1/2weeks old (she came home at 8 weeks). I was an instructor at my local obedience club for almost 12 years, so wasn't after information, just wanted the socialisation. There were 2 Delta accredited trainers and 8 puppies (I think) in the class. Unfortunately most of the puppies were small, timid fluffies. The only 2 that were Pele's size were a veeery timid spoodle, and an 11 week old Beagle who was a bit on the aggressive side. From the day that Pele came home I worked on sit, watch, recall, drop, show stand so when we got to class a few days later the distractions were good for attention. Only 2 puppies were let off at a time and were monitored closely. If I was a novice owner the class may not have been ideal because of the mix. The instructors were excellent for the novice owner. On Graduation Night Pele, AKA (by that early stage) "Perilous Pele", the "Ferilous Perilous" or the "Feral Peril" (new words for the Oxford Dictionary) won most of the awards "Quickest sit", "Best Recall" (was really surprised with that one LOL!) PP's are really a buyer beware. The worst thing as a consequense of the PP? Whenever we went to the vets Pele would throw a tanty, 'cos she wanted to go to the back room where she "knew" the puppies were :rolleyes: How embarrassing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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