Epilepsy

[possum86]

Hi all, I have a 7yr spayed Lhasa Apso bitch and 3 yrs ago she started having epileptic fits. They are regular (every 6-8 wks) only mild but they r always after 5pm! I would like to know what triggers these fits so i am better equipped to prevent them. If anyone has any suggestions that would be great. I have discussed this topic with many vets and have also had blood tests taken that were all normal. There must be something but i can't put my finger on it.

[Bully]

Sorry to hear about your girl. There are a few dog epilepsy lists on Yahoo.

Here's a couple of websites that might be helpful -

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.../CanineEpil.htm

[SueM]

Is your dog on Medication, mine is on Phenobarb they dont totally control his seizures but he now has very mild ones and they are now over 2 months apart.

[~Anne~]

There may simply be no trigger. Not all epileptics have triggers.... the majority don't.

Most epileptics have seizures in the evenings and many will have them after they go to sleep.

Monte has the majority of his between 11pm - 5am although he has had them in the morning, the afternoon and the early evening. He hasn't any known triggers either.

[possum86]

At the moment she is not on any medication, just a subcut injection of pamlin when she has her seizures. All the vets I have spoken to have said she her seizures aren't bad enough or frequent enough to warrant the effects of pheonobarb but I'm sure that day will come. I'm just lucky I'm always there when she has a fit i guess.

[SueM]

At the moment she is not on any medication, just a subcut injection of pamlin when she has her seizures. All the vets I have spoken to have said she her seizures aren't bad enough or frequent enough to warrant the effects of pheonobarb but I'm sure that day will come. I'm just lucky I'm always there when she has a fit i guess.

That seems weird,Pheno isnt affecting my boy at all, once they are used to it and if it increases the time between having seizures I think its is worth the health risks that could happen later down the track.Its just a matter of having a liver function test once a year when on Pheno as my boy is small and on a low dosage his functions are fine..

[~Anne~]

I agree with Varicool. Why isn't your dog on a preventative medicine? You state that she has a seizure every 6 - 8 weeks and she has been having seizures for 3 years or more. To me, that would definitely warrant preventatives.

Interesting it is given as a subcut injection too... I always thought it was iv or im? Also, why is it given after a seizure? Is there a risk of her clustering or going into status? Usually, the only reason you dose them up on diazapam is to prevent a cluster or to prevent status and if your dog only ever has one seizure, aren't you 'shutting the gate after the horse has bolted' so to speak?

[Rappie]

"Epilepsy" is a diagnosis of exclusion, essentially meaning that to properly diagnose it all other possible causes of seizures have been ruled out.

The first step is usually to run some blood work to see if there is a metabolic cause for the seizures, most often there isn't but it is still neccessary to do the tests to determine this. In the absence of an "extra-cranial" cause, an "intracranial" cause is suspected - meaning that theres something amiss with the electrical conduction in the brain. Sometimes a trigger can be identified, but it may fairly non specific like over excitement. Usually it's very difficult to identify a trigger.

With a regular seizure frequency of 6-8 weeks I would be considering treatment. I am guessing that the valium is given to prevent cluster seizures if the "typical" seizure is only of moderate intensity. However valium is very poorly absorbed from under the skin - IV is the most effective method of administration, followed by IM, a subcut injection of valium probably isn't going to do very much. It would be more effective to give the injectable solution rectally but obviously speak to your own vet about appropriate dosages and administration.

[possum86]

I agree with Varicool. Why isn't your dog on a preventative medicine? You state that she has a seizure every 6 - 8 weeks and she has been having seizures for 3 years or more. To me, that would definitely warrant preventatives.

Interesting it is given as a subcut injection too... I always thought it was iv or im? Also, why is it given after a seizure? Is there a risk of her clustering or going into status? Usually, the only reason you dose them up on diazapam is to prevent a cluster or to prevent status and if your dog only ever has one seizure, aren't you 'shutting the gate after the horse has bolted' so to speak?

pamlin is given as a subcut injection when she is having a siezure. It is hard to give it i.v and i.m is not preferred as it has some tissue reaction and it is also a large amount to put into a muscle and can cause severe pain afterwards. The vets i have spoken to tell me that dogs on phenobarb eat a lot more gain weight, become drowsey, inactive and causes damage to the bodies organs. You also have to increase the dose periodically because the body becomes used to the drug. Again until she is having bad seizures and more frequently I have been strongly advised by more than one vet not to treat with phenobarb yet.

[SueM]

I agree with Varicool. Why isn't your dog on a preventative medicine? You state that she has a seizure every 6 - 8 weeks and she has been having seizures for 3 years or more. To me, that would definitely warrant preventatives.

Interesting it is given as a subcut injection too... I always thought it was iv or im? Also, why is it given after a seizure? Is there a risk of her clustering or going into status? Usually, the only reason you dose them up on diazapam is to prevent a cluster or to prevent status and if your dog only ever has one seizure, aren't you 'shutting the gate after the horse has bolted' so to speak?

pamlin is given as a subcut injection when she is having a siezure. It is hard to give it i.v and i.m is not preferred as it has some tissue reaction and it is also a large amount to put into a muscle and can cause severe pain afterwards. The vets i have spoken to tell me that dogs on phenobarb eat a lot more gain weight, become drowsey, inactive and causes damage to the bodies organs. You also have to increase the dose periodically because the body becomes used to the drug. Again until she is having bad seizures and more frequently I have been strongly advised by more than one vet not to treat with phenobarb yet.

My dogs weight is under control he doesnt eat more at all, they do become drowsy for a couple of days until they get used to the drug,my dog is extremely active to the point of being annoying at time with his obsession with playing non stop with toys, I would be more concerned about my dog having seizures every month and would rather try to decrease their frequency I know of people who have had dog on pheno for years their dogs organs are fine, the seizures themselves can cause much more harm, how long is your dog having a seizure is it still in status when you take her to the vet for the injection.

[persephone]

Hi...

When is your dog fed?

Just wondering if Hypoglycaemia could be a trigger?

[Cavandra]

Annual Vaccinations & the Heartworm injection cause seizures....If your dog has had these that is likely to be the cause. IMO

[possum86]

she gets fed about 6pm when I eat but she gets tid bits throughout the day. Good point though I might look further into that.

[persephone]

she gets fed about 6pm

maybe it will be something as simple as feeding her 3x day... little bits..HOPEFULLY. *fingers crossed*

A friends dog was hypoglcaemic... they took ages to find the cause- thought it was epilepsy/heart.... but once they found out.. it was a matter of management.

[Dogsfevr]

do you feed coloured biscuits/treats??

I own a dog that after feeding a certain brand & treat had major seizures.Luckily for her they did continue but as a result she does suffer panic attacks.

We board alot of dogs with epilepsy & all are very normal functioning dogs.The only one that was drowsy had fits 2-3 times a week.

These dogs have been on it for years.

We found it easy to tell when they will have seizures.Some go into fast forward mode.Twitching well before the seizure & quiteness,with our clients it was normally when the dogs where picked up & worse if the owners made a big deal.

If these dogs where picked up clamly ,quietly & very low key no seizures.

The all had diaries outling what happened that day(food,activities,weather,visitors,time etc etc ) to try a get a pattern

[~Anne~]

pamlin is given as a subcut injection when she is having a siezure. It is hard to give it i.v and i.m is not preferred as it has some tissue reaction and it is also a large amount to put into a muscle and can cause severe pain afterwards. The vets i have spoken to tell me that dogs on phenobarb eat a lot more gain weight, become drowsey, inactive and causes damage to the bodies organs. You also have to increase the dose periodically because the body becomes used to the drug. Again until she is having bad seizures and more frequently I have been strongly advised by more than one vet not to treat with phenobarb yet.

I would be getting another opinion quite frankly.

Of all the epileptic dogs I know (and that is a lot) and after my own personal experiences and discussions with Vets, Canine Neurologists and people who understand this condition I have never, ever had one that believes a dog is better off not being on anti-epileptic medication to prevent seizures, rather then letting them continue to have seizures.

Phenobarb is not the only anti-epi medication either. Potassium Bromide is another drug and does not have the same side effects that pheno does, athough it does have side effects like most drugs. There are also others, such as Keppra.

Pheno does not cause weight gain either. It does cause an increase in appetite but the only way your dog will gain weight is if you feed it too much. Plain and simple. Dogs get fat because humans feed them too much, not because a dog is a pig or because of medication it is on.

Rappie (who incidently is a Vet) who posted above also states that with a dog having regular seizures as you described, she would be considering medication.

My dog has been on Pheno for 4 years and has not had any issues with it apart from the usual side effects which is managed successfully. He does want to eat more, but I don't let him. He is on high doses of pheno and so he isn't as active as my other dogs but this doesn't worry me or him. He drinks more water and he urinates more, neither of which are an issue and he suffers from ataxia which again doesn't worry him or hurt him. He has regualr liver function tests and these have shown no damage to his liver.

With every seizure your dog has, she is being damaged more and she is at risk of dying or from suffering organ damage, such as damage to the brain. Another issue is that the 'pathways' to seizure become easier with every siezure, it is believed, and so you are at risk of her seizures becoming worse.

Annual Vaccinations & the Heartworm injection cause seizures....If your dog has had these that is likely to be the cause. IMO

:rolleyes: No offence, but your statement is ludicrous. There are many causes of seizures. Epilepsy is not caused by vaccinations. Seizures may occur if a dog has a reaction to vaccination but epilepsy is a name given to 'seizures of no known cause'. Seizures that occur due to vaccinations occur within hours of the vaccination usually also.

[Cavandra]

There may simply be no trigger. Not all epileptics have triggers.... the majority don't.

Most epileptics have seizures in the evenings and many will have them after they go to sleep.

Monte has the majority of his between 11pm - 5am although he has had them in the morning, the afternoon and the early evening. He hasn't any known triggers either.

Syringiomyelia has seizures as a symptom............many Toy breeds can have SM............Most seizures are at night, theory, colder atmosphere............

[Dog_Horse_Girl]

Molly has been diagnosed with epilepsy as everything else was ruled out by testing...

She's on Phenobarb, low dose which is definitely working. We haven't observed ANY seizures since she started on the meds but we both work full time. I noticed her seizures were mostly in the late afternoon/early evening when she did fit.

Her liver function and med levels were checked two weeks ago - liver is functioning well. Levels are effective and not causing any damage so if needed, we could increase. It's the best result for us! No seizures, meds working, not affecting liver function.

I was of the belief that seizures *may* cause brain damage? If that's so, then preventives are surely a better alternative?

[~Anne~]

Syringiomyelia has seizures as a symptom............many Toy breeds can have SM............Most seizures are at night, theory, colder atmosphere............

Interestingly though many people I have spoken to with epi dogs seem to think that they have more seizures in Summer?? I put this to Monte's Neuro once and she also thinks that the Summer months see more dogs having seizures.

[possum86]

Thanks for all the advice guys does any one know of a neurological specialist in the qld area? I think it's time I we had aconsults with at least 2. Do you need a referral?