Is This Dominance?

[Jessca]

I can see why schuhtzhund isn't very big in Australia, anyone who as any intention of doing any protection work gets shot down. Luckily I am stubborn, and I AM going to train a dog in protection. That really isn't up for discussion, if you want to discuss methods of training or recommend reading material (or DVDs) then that would be a far better idea.

what has Sch really got to do with protection??

there is a big diff between Sch and protection work.

Sch is more like a dance routine than anything else, putting a Sch dog into a protection situation would probably not do to well.

i would love to get back into protection work, after me family has been training pp dogs for 25 years, so i know how you feel, and you have to have a lot of knowledge.

i advise you to watch as many movies, read as many books and see as many trainers working hands on as you possibly can.

good luck

oh and if "know one has given any advice worth listening" to why did you bother staring this thread, people did try to give you advice what more do you want.

[Kavik]

I have handled security dogs in training and trained dogs, and been a helper, and watched Schutzhund comps and been to the Schutzhund club. I still have a LOT to learn, mostly about me Like, am I a suitable person to do this and could I handle a dog in this sport? I have no doubt I could handle a dog for Schutzhund or security, if the dog was not mine, but could I LIVE with it and not stuff it up is the question! I need to learn how to properly do drive work before I would even consider this, I still am not doing it right, and I get nervous around lots of people and attention and some of my dogs feed off this. And I am small, some of the dogs weigh more than me!

My advice if you are serious - learn as much as you can, take all the opportunities you can for working other dogs with good instruction.

[MonElite]

learn as much as you can, take all the opportunities you can for working other dogs with good instruction.

ditto.

That is practicing an type of teaching/training/proofing of any behaviours you can think of on your current dog/dogs.

[Just Midol]

I can see why schuhtzhund isn't very big in Australia, anyone who as any intention of doing any protection work gets shot down. Luckily I am stubborn, and I AM going to train a dog in protection. That really isn't up for discussion, if you want to discuss methods of training or recommend reading material (or DVDs) then that would be a far better idea.

what has Sch really got to do with protection??

there is a big diff between Sch and protection work.

Sch is more like a dance routine than anything else, putting a Sch dog into a protection situation would probably not do to well.

i would love to get back into protection work, after me family has been training pp dogs for 25 years, so i know how you feel, and you have to have a lot of knowledge.

i advise you to watch as many movies, read as many books and see as many trainers working hands on as you possibly can.

good luck

oh and if "know one has given any advice worth listening" to why did you bother staring this thread, people did try to give you advice what more do you want.

Both are trained to attack. I'd say the similarities are pretty strong.

[Jessca]

I can see why schuhtzhund isn't very big in Australia, anyone who as any intention of doing any protection work gets shot down. Luckily I am stubborn, and I AM going to train a dog in protection. That really isn't up for discussion, if you want to discuss methods of training or recommend reading material (or DVDs) then that would be a far better idea.

what has Sch really got to do with protection??

there is a big diff between Sch and protection work.

Sch is more like a dance routine than anything else, putting a Sch dog into a protection situation would probably not do to well.

i would love to get back into protection work, after me family has been training pp dogs for 25 years, so i know how you feel, and you have to have a lot of knowledge.

i advise you to watch as many movies, read as many books and see as many trainers working hands on as you possibly can.

good luck

oh and if "know one has given any advice worth listening" to why did you bother staring this thread, people did try to give you advice what more do you want.

Both are trained to attack. I'd say the similarities are pretty strong.

they are not both trained to attack SCH dogs are trained to bite a sleeve.

not attack a person till there still on the ground.

[Kavik]

The foundation work in prey is similar, but security does a lot more defence work, Schutzhund stays in prey. Most security dogs I know stick with basic commands - heel, sit, drop, recall and don't do anything fancy. The heeling tends to be more utilitarian and less showy for security.

[Jeff Jones]

I dare say Midol will be fine, I will be putting him in contact with appropriate trainers and breeders in QLD closer to the time he is ready to select a pup.

EFS

Edited July 1, 2008 by Jeff Jones

[Just Midol]

The foundation work in prey is similar, but security does a lot more defence work, Schutzhund stays in prey. Most security dogs I know stick with basic commands - heel, sit, drop, recall and don't do anything fancy. The heeling tends to be more utilitarian and less showy for security.

Thanks, that is what I meant.

[Luke GSP]

But Midol,

Have you considered that maybe the reason that your ideas have not been met with resounding applause might be that your posts are littered with such statements as. haven't got round to... plenty of time... haven't watched it yet... These do not sound like statements from someone who is going to put in the massive amount of work and dedication that it takes for schutz or PP training. It's not like training a learned behaviour on a food exchange basis. You are suggesting a step in to a very serious world with very real cosequences should you screw up, for you, people around you and the dog. With little knowledge (it would appear) of what is truly involved in the "back office" so to speak. I would love to fly helicopters, always have and probably always will want to but, realistically I have neither the time, Money or possibly aptitude to do it. Please take a deep breath, count to ten and consider if you are truly aware of what you would be signing on for should you decide to go down the PP or schutz route. If you have done research, found out the facts pertaining to time, effort, knowledge base required and financial investment and are truly willing to commit to these, I wish you all the luck in the world but, Please make sure you've done the aforementioned check list before possibly subjecting a puppy to a training regime that may push the dog both mentally and physically to places that possibly neither you or your dog are capable of dealing with.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Luke GSP

[MonElite]

Great post Luke - exactly what I have been thinking. Just the fact that Midol thinks that schutzhund dogs are trained to attack is a scary thought.

Sch "protection" side of things is really a glorified obedience routine.

As a side note - I wonder why do people when they speak about schutzhund talk about the biting of the sleave. Why do they forget the obedience and tracking???? That are just as important, and just as difficult to train!

[JulesP]

Just going to answer the original question. I thought about this in relation to my dogs and how they interact with each other. The lower 2 dogs would not dream for physically moving the older girl who is the boss. They would with each other. If they do bump into her by accident they get told off.

Maybe not dominance but a lack of respect possibly. If your dog growled or something if you didn't comply then I think it would be going into dominance. Lots of lack of respect issues do then also lead to dominance issues. I've found that if you let these little things slide that you then get problems.

[Just Midol]

Just going to answer the original question. I thought about this in relation to my dogs and how they interact with each other. The lower 2 dogs would not dream for physically moving the older girl who is the boss. They would with each other. If they do bump into her by accident they get told off.

Maybe not dominance but a lack of respect possibly. If your dog growled or something if you didn't comply then I think it would be going into dominance. Lots of lack of respect issues do then also lead to dominance issues. I've found that if you let these little things slide that you then get problems.

Thanks for your opinion I appreciate it.

[Luke GSP]

Just going to answer the original question. I thought about this in relation to my dogs and how they interact with each other. The lower 2 dogs would not dream for physically moving the older girl who is the boss. They would with each other. If they do bump into her by accident they get told off.

Maybe not dominance but a lack of respect possibly. If your dog growled or something if you didn't comply then I think it would be going into dominance. Lots of lack of respect issues do then also lead to dominance issues. I've found that if you let these little things slide that you then get problems.

IMHO very little in a dogs world is not linked to or governed by pack rank, if that is the case what you are calling a lack of respect is by definition the beginings of a dominance issue. I dog does not respect a dog it respects it's rank within the pack. Saying that, some people are happy having dogs that believe they are Alpha of the entire household that won't move off the sofa, bed or doorway when told, or will constantly demand attention by pushing in to people or pawing/headbutting their hand/leg/arm. If the people that own those dogs do not see it as a problem, then it is not! If on the other hand that dog gets seriously aggressive at the wrong time down the track when someone does not bow down to it's wants (a child for instance) is it a problem now!