Is This Dominance?

[Just Midol]

If my dog did it to me, I would see it as dominance. But nobody knows your dog as well as you do.

I was more asking if in general, behaviour like that would be considered dominance related. BEFORE I created this thread I was 99.9% sure he just wanted to be close but I was curious as to how others would interpret similar behaviour in dogs. I am not a dog training, I do not have much experience training dogs so I wanted the opinions of more experienced trainers on how they MIGHT interpret such behaviour (so I could look at it from another perspective.)

And I'm saying that, in general, I would consider that behaviour to be dominance related.

I won't let my dog on any of the household furniture. He goes into and out of doors when invited. He eats after me, and only once released. He sits for any form of attention.

But I have only trained my dog. I am therefore not the experienced trainer from whom you sought opinions, so I'll butt out

Good luck with Gizmo.

Lmao, sorry, I was just venting and you were the unlucky person. I appreciate all input (okay, I might not appreciate it all but at least it all makes me think.)

One dog is enough

[MonElite]

What dog are you going to do the security work with Midol?

[Just Midol]

Not sure yet. Still looking for breeders.

I was going with a GSD but I can't seem to find any working GSD breeders in QLD :S I might just be looking in the wrong places though. Did some talking with Jeff and he recommended I get a GSD as my first "protection" type dog.

I've also got to decide on who to go to for training up here.

[Kavik]

Found this breeder of working GSD in Queensland, don't know anything about them though.

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/lenblunt/

Probably GSD are a good first protection type dog

[MonElite]

Im trying to grasp the concept here Midol.

So you dont have the knowledge about protection training, by the looks of it you have a very limited knowledge about dog training full stop.

You are looking to get a puppy to do the security work with???

Why not get yourself into a company that already has traine dogs and see how you go with those?

Or am I missing something and you want to train the dog for Personal Protection for yourself?

[Just Midol]

Why would I want to do that?

We all start somewhere, this is where I am starting.

I'm in the process of doing the NDTF course, should be finished that by the time I get a pup. I'll have a decent understanding of dog training by then. Won't know much about protection training but I don't really care. That's what a trainer is for.

ETA: Thanks Kavik, will send them an email in the next day or so.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Lord Midol

[MonElite]

Hmmm, I dont think its exactly the right order of things and where to start.... NDTF is great but the rest...

First learn about training, practice on some dogs than go and get a puppy. Not get a puppy and dump the responsibility on a trainer as you might just pick up the wrong puppy.

For now I see you are having problems with your dog being crate trained, chasing chooks, pulling on lead and no recall etc. Not so great basis when considering you want to get yourself into personal protection training with a new dog/puppy. Why dont you try training the dog you already have to respond to some techniques you are learning with NDTF? or you havnent progressed that far as yet?

And if you are going to employ a trainer I hope you have a nice pile of money stashed away - personal protection is an expensive "sport"

On the note of positive trainers - have you researchd the sch trainer I mentioned?

Edited July 1, 2008 by Monelite

[Just Midol]

Hmmm, I dont think its exactly the right order of things and where to start.... NDTF is great but the rest...

First learn about training, practice on some dogs than go and get a puppy. Not get a puppy and dump the responsibility on a trainer as you might just pick up the wrong puppy.

That's fine but you're really the first person (out of many whom I have spoken to) who has an issue with the way I am doing things (and by the "first person" I mean the first person who actually does some sort of protection training.)

For now I see you are having problems with your dog being crate trained

What? I don't even have a crate yet.

chasing chooks

I know how to stop it, I haven't yet. There is no real rush for me to fix this and I intend on using the e-collar to fix problem but since the chickens don't share land with him I have no desire to rush with this. When I get around to it I will.

pulling on lead

Wrong. He used to pull on the lead. I successfully fixed that problem.

and no recall

I haven't even tried to obtain a recall. I've done no recall training at all with Gizmo so this isn't a case of my training "failing".

I am seeing Steve SPECIFICALLY about recalls. I want a clean slate when I see him so I have no intention to even try and get him to recall.

etc. Not so great basis when considering you want to get yourself into personal protection training with a new dog/puppy. Why dont you try training the dog you already have to respond to some techniques you are learning with NDTF? or you havnent progressed that far as yet?

I've only received my first batch of notes as I pushed my block training back to september-oct. So far I've really only learnt about the basic things. Conditioning, reinforcements, punishments (what they are not how to use them), basic dog training rules. I put all that into practice every time I teach Gizmo something new.

I can't move to a company with dogs as we have none in the area. I COULD ask to use one of the other handlers dogs but they're all crap. One guy semi-trains his but not to a very high standard.

And if you are going to employ a trainer I hope you have a nice pile of money stashed away - personal protection is an expensive "sport"

Sure, but it's a job right now, not a sport. I also intend on joining the police force and attempting to get into K9 squad so I am not to fussed on spending money to learn about protection work.

How did YOU learn?

[Luke W]

I'm confused...

What is this 'protection work'? What do you intend to do with a 'protection trained' dog?

Is it a sport like shutzhund?

Or is it a profession like being an armed security guard or a bodyguard with a dog?

Added...Or are learning to train protection dogs for one of the purposes above?

Genuinely curious about the demand for protection dogs, and protection dog trainers..

Edited July 1, 2008 by Luke W

[MonElite]

That's fine but you're really the first person (out of many whom I have spoken to) who has an issue with the way I am doing things (and by the "first person" I mean the first person who actually does some sort of protection training.)

I dont do any sort of protection training wtih my dog! and I dont have and ISSUE with what you do, not my dog/dogs dont know you forma bar of soap and dont really care.

I am pointing out to you that some people in this thread have a lot more knowledge than you do and you for some unknown reason dismiss that knowledge and their advice.

ETC - taht I dont do any protection work with MY DOG

Edited July 1, 2008 by Monelite

[Just Midol]

I'm confused...

What is this 'protection work'? What do you intend to do with a 'protection trained' dog?

Is it a sport like shutzhund?

Or is it a profession like being an armed security guard or a bodyguard with a dog?

Added...Or are learning to train protection dogs for one of the purposes above?

Genuinely curious about the demand for protection dogs, and protection dog trainers..

I've already stated that I do security work and once I leave the security profession I intend to compete in schutzhund. (I might not have said the second half.)

That's fine but you're really the first person (out of many whom I have spoken to) who has an issue with the way I am doing things (and by the "first person" I mean the first person who actually does some sort of protection training.)

I dont do any sort of protection training! and I dont have and ISSUE with what you do, not my dog/dogs dont know you forma bar of soap and dont really care.

I am pointing out to you that some people in this thread have a lot more knowledge than you do and you for some unknown reason dismiss that knowledge and their advice.

No one has given any advice worth listening to. PAX attacked me and offered nothing of value.

So you don't even do protection training and you are lecturing me on it?

Edited July 1, 2008 by Lord Midol

[MonElite]

How did YOU learn?

Im still learning and will continue to learn. I love learning

But in short - got a dog, went to obedience club, made million mistakes, tried to fix them probably made the dog worse, gone to a pro trainer, learned a bit there. Got ecollar, great tool, used it with success, but not for everything in my dogs life, only for what I had issues with.

Became an instructor at the club, handled dozens of dogs.

Gone to various seminars, various trainers, to get a wider view of methods that people use, to pick and choose what is it that I like and what will be most suitable for my dog.

Gone and got myslelf another dog with a potential view that I might do schutzhund with it. Dog isnt suitable (its a shame) but allows me to learn more about what to look for in a dog for specific purpose. As an example if my dog was bred for one purpose in its life it would be tracking - she excells at it, second sport she is great is agility. Fun for both of us, and a great learning curve.

I try more positive methods with that dog, even gone onto experimenting with free shaping with a clicker (found this a waste of time in the past and was very positivelly surprised with the results recently)

Tried not to use ecollar, nor prong and my younger dog has a fabulous recall, doenst pull on lead etc. Why didnt I use some tools? - to see what can be achieved and how can it be achieved.

So you don't even do protection training and you are lecturing me on it?

Not with my own dog.

A friend has lend me his dog to do a protection part in schutzhund where I learn to correctly handle a dog, look for body language, together with a helper at what do do and what not to do. I find this extremly stimulating, and lots of fun, but also very difficult.

In the mean time I also train my younger dog in obedience, try a bit of agility, tracking and whatever other sport I might find interesting as all give my views, experiences, knowledge and motivation to learn more and more to become a better trainer, instructor and handler.

You can ask several people here that have met my dogs and Im sure that most if not all will tell you that my dogs are very well trained pets.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Monelite

[Just Midol]

I've no doubt that your dogs are very well trained.

So basically, you learnt by getting a dog and getting into it? Yet you are telling me not to do the same?

[MonElite]

I was an instructor at an obediecne club for couple of years before.

And I still didnt go and got myself a dog suitable for personal protection....

No one has given any advice worth listening to.

You are free to have your own opinion, I happend to ahve a different one to yours

Ill make a comment about this

wouldn't bother me if it was dominant anyway

if you are getting a dog for PP perhaps you should start practicing not allowing your dog to be dominant.....

[Just Midol]

I was an instructor at an obediecne club for couple of years before.

And I still didnt go and got myself a dog suitable for personal protection....

No one has given any advice worth listening to.

You are free to have your own opinion, I happend to ahve a different one to yours

Ill make a comment about this

wouldn't bother me if it was dominant anyway

if you are getting a dog for PP perhaps you should start practicing not allowing your dog to be dominant.....

I wouldn't care if it was a dominant behaviour because it's not exactly hard to stop?

I do not believe his behaviour was dominant, I believe he was just trying to be close.

I can see why schuhtzhund isn't very big in Australia, anyone who as any intention of doing any protection work gets shot down. Luckily I am stubborn, and I AM going to train a dog in protection. That really isn't up for discussion, if you want to discuss methods of training or recommend reading material (or DVDs) then that would be a far better idea.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Lord Midol

[MonElite]

I wouldn't care if it was a dominant behaviour because it's not exactly hard to stop?

I happen to ahve a different opinion. Depends on a dog, perhaps you havent met a very dominant dog as yet Midol.

And potentially your puppy (assuming you will get a right temperament one for PP) will be...

[Just Midol]

No no, I meant it isn't hard to stop him from pawing my hand I am aware that dealing with dominance isn't easy (well, I personally feel it is relatively easy once you've got a plan like I had with Axle.)

Axle was incredibly dominant, obviously not as dominant as a working line GSD would be but he was still fairly dominant. He taught me a lot.

I've got Leerburgs DVD "Dealing with Dominant and Aggressive Dogs" here, need to watch it but haven't had a chance yet.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Lord Midol

[MonElite]

I can see why schuhtzhund isn't very big in Australia, anyone who as any intention of doing any protection work gets shot down.

I cant see anyone getting shot down, or are you chucking a little boyish tantrum?

Your statement is totally incorrect.

The reasons are that people go and get unsuitable dogs than their dreams are crushed that they cant do the sport with thier lovely pet that is suited to being a sofa decoration rather than a attachement to a protection sleave.

Second reason is that the amount of training that is involved is so large that most people dont have time and cant commit to the amont of work that is required to be put in.

Third is that one needs a helper with a lot of knowledge as the helper might stuff up and injure a dog. Hard to find a helper...

Fourth is the costs associated with it all.

And fifth is that it is looked down at by ANKC.

Im glad you are determined. And good luck.

[jaybeece]

Im trying to grasp the concept here Midol.

So you dont have the knowledge about protection training, by the looks of it you have a very limited knowledge about dog training full stop.

You are looking to get a puppy to do the security work with???

Why not get yourself into a company that already has traine dogs and see how you go with those?

Or am I missing something and you want to train the dog for Personal Protection for yourself?

Doesn't everyone have to start somewhere Why isn't he allowed to start protection training if he doesn't have much knowledge? I would have thought that's the best way to learn, when I enquired about Schutzhund some time ago it seemed pretty standard to BYO dog and learn that way.

[MonElite]

Why isn't he allowed to start protection training if he doesn't have much knowledge?

He is allowed, he can do whatever he pleases........

And Im glad he is stuborn, hopefully he will stick to what he says he will do, and wont get bored/discouraged with the amount of work and funds that are required.

Edited July 1, 2008 by Monelite