gemstone Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 At first I was told it was spindle cell carcinoma. Got the lump removed and the vet says its hemangiosarcoma. This was over the phone and I am going in tomorrow with my girl but just wondered if anyone knows of this type? I've googled it but there's so much conflicting info.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayne's Mum Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 At first I was told it was spindle cell carcinoma.Got the lump removed and the vet says its hemangiosarcoma. This was over the phone and I am going in tomorrow with my girl but just wondered if anyone knows of this type? I've googled it but there's so much conflicting info.... Hemangiosarcoma is an aggressive cancer that arises from the blood vessels. The cancer can occur anywhere in the body, but there are several locations that are more common. Early and aggressive treatment can lengthen the dog's life, but this cancer is often metastatic and complete remission is rare. Which dogs are at risk for developing hemangiosarcomas? Hemangiosarcomas can occur in any dog regardless of breed, age, or sex. Hemangiosarcomas are rare in the cat and human. There are several breeds of dogs that seem to be at a greater risk for hemangiosarcoma and they include German Shepherds, Golden Retrievers, Boxers, and English Setters. We do not currently understand why dogs develop hemangiosarcomas. Because of the increased incidence in several breeds, a genetic link appears to be one of several likely causes. Hemangiosarcoma is rarely found in humans, so less research has been done, and the amount of information about the cause of this tumor is somewhat limited. What are the symptoms of hemangiosarcoma? Hemangiosarcomas can occur anywhere on or in the body, but primarily are present in the spleen, liver, heart, and skin. The skin form of hemangiosarcoma has a better prognosis and recovery rate than the internal forms. The skin form is occasionally present in cats and can sometimes be associated with sun damage on light-skinned/haired animals. The internal form is usually diagnosed by the palpation of a large mass in the abdomen or with symptoms of sudden blood loss. The sudden blood loss results from the rupture of the fragile tumor and a resulting loss of blood into the abdomen. The symptoms would include weakness or collapse and pale mucous membranes. Occasionally, dogs will have symptoms of chronic blood loss, which include pale gums, slow capillary refill time (CRT), irregular heart rate, and generalized weakness. How is hemangiosarcoma diagnosed? Once a tumor is suspected, abdominal and chest x-rays are often performed to determine the extent of organ involvement and whether or not metastasis is present. Hemangiosarcoma is an aggressive tumor and metastases are often present at the time of initial diagnosis. A biopsy or positive identification of a removed tumor by a veterinary pathologist is usually recommended. What is the treatment for hemangiosarcoma? Hemangiosarcoma is primarily treated with a combination of surgery and chemotherapy. Surgical removal alone is often not very rewarding. Because of the high risk of metastasis, the average survival time without chemotherapy is one to two months, with less than 10% of the dogs living a year. With surgical removal and accompanying chemotherapy, the average survival time increases to 5 to 7 months. However, 90% of these dogs still do not survive more than a year after initial treatment. Success rates can improve depending on location and early intervention. Skin-based hemangiosarcomas appear less likely to be metastatic when initially diagnosed and treatment is more often successful. Surgical removal of the skin-based tumors can be curative, however, chemotherapy is often recommended in addition to surgery. Because of the aggressive nature of hemangiosarcomas and the rapidly changing chemotherapy drugs, I recommend that all owners of dogs with hemangiosarcomas seek out treatment or advice from a veterinary oncologist. Conclusion In summary, hemangiosarcoma is a somewhat common tumor in dogs. It can be found in any dog, but has some definite breed predilections. Most of the tumors are metastatic and aggressive and have a guarded outcome. With early detection and treatment with surgery and chemotherapy, survival times and quality of life can be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayne's Mum Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 sorry. posted the info I had but wrote no comment. My GSD was diagnosed with it last year. He had 2 surgeries. 1 to remove the lump and then 1 again because not enough surrounding tissue had been removed. Last my poor old boy this year in February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemstone Posted June 25, 2008 Author Share Posted June 25, 2008 sorry. posted the info I had but wrote no comment.My GSD was diagnosed with it last year. He had 2 surgeries. 1 to remove the lump and then 1 again because not enough surrounding tissue had been removed. Last my poor old boy this year in February. Sorry to hear about your boy. Could you tell me how long it was between diagnosis and when you lost him? Did he manage to have much quality after diagnosis. Totally understand if its too hard to talk about. I have just found out my news so I suppose I am looking for a time frame - looking for any info really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Rules Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 (edited) You should PM CHEWBACCA - her dog Squid died of the same disease - in fact if you do a search for it in general, you'll find a whole thread about it. Sorry to her about your dog. Best wishes. ETA: Here is the link...... http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...ermangiosarcoma Edited June 25, 2008 by ~ArtyFarty~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 rmc: in the Health/ Nutrition/Grooming Section of this forum we have a sub forum called Palliative Care. The sub forum isn't easy to find unless you know where to look. It's very informative for those of us who have dogs suffering from cancer. Perhaps you could start a thread on your boy in there and you will probably get feeback from those who have experienced the problem you are faced with. I find the support in that section of the forum to be very helpful and encouraging. My girl has osteosarcoma and she is in the unwell Rotty thread. We speak about cancer diets and supplements that may help our dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayne's Mum Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 with Jerry, it was very fast. In last thast few years, I found lumps on him in various places. Not one to sit back and wait to see what happened, I always took him to the vet. 3 lumps were nothing. The 4th, found last year, was on his back, near his shoulder between his shoulder blades. Although he was 14, he was a very strong dog and the vet was amazed at how fast he recovered each time.So we opted for surgery again. This time, it came back as cancer. The path results said that not enough tissue had been removed from the site. It was short a ridiculous 3-5 mm. Not much but the decision was made to go in yet again for surgery. He then got the all clear. He recovered very quickly and was back to normal within a few weeks. In early Feb, another lump came up. This time, it grew as an extremley fast rate. It was on his head, behind his ear. Within days he was bleeding from the ear. The vet felt that surgery was not possible due to the location. A decision had to be made. I still wonder and I still feel a lot of guilt for the decision that I made. The vet assured me that it was the best due to such an aggressive cancer. Like humans I guess - same patients don't get much time at all. Others suffer for years. Do chat to the other owner as suggested. Everyone's story is different. I'm so sorry to hear about your doggy. All the best to both of you and be strong for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitchick Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 My boy Jeep was diagnosed with this a few months ago. The lump was on his sheath and I had it removed, but I wanted to make sure that this lump was a primary and not a secondary, so I had his chest x-rayd to see if there was anything on his heart and also had an ultrasound done to check his spleen area. These came back clear and it looks as though I had caught it early. They can metastisize (reoccur) so I do have to keep an eye on him. What Luciens Mum posted pretty much sums it up. Dont panic too much yet (I know its hard), but get in and get the x-rays and ultrasounds done and go from there. Once you know either way you can work out what you want to do. Good luck and hopefully they caught it early. Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted June 26, 2008 Share Posted June 26, 2008 rmc where abouts was the lump? Was it on the skin or was it internal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemstone Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 an update... I am totally confused now. I went to the vets last night and the vet I had the appointment with was not in. There was only 1 vet on duty and I asked to speak to him anyway. I wasnt happy with what happened. He spoke to me in the waiting room in front of several other people (and pets) When I tried to ask questions he seemed agitated and hurried. He ended up saying look this is not my case all I can do it tell you what the report says, the results are good we got clear margins, if you are not happy with the phone call you got yesterday can you speak to your usual vet! Thing is I didnt get the phone call my husband did and he seems to have a mental block I do remember the word cutaneous. I googled that and it almost feels like there is some hope. stormie - you asked where the lump was - it was on the inside of her back leg. There were 2 other 'spots' that got removed on her tummy and abdomen (they only looked like pimples and not anything to worry about) Her xrays did not show any cancer in her internal organs Could this be a different type of hemangio to the really bad one that kills so quickly? I am scared to even hope right now CavNrott I have looked at the palliative care forum and I cant put into words how much I feel for you guys. I dont know how you can deal with the stress you have my utmost respect and admiration. Hope you and Sophie had a good day Tangerinedream I have tried to pm you and keep getting an error message (bummer because the message took ages to type and I lost it ) thanks to everyone who has replied I am going to get a copy of the results tomorrow - this lack of sleep is draining me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam&Saki Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 (edited) Could this be a different type of hemangio to the really bad one that kills so quickly? Oh RMC I am so very, very sorry. Hemangiosarcoma is a horrible, quick and brutal cancer, I lost my beautiful girl Kia to it last year. What you are describing does not sound like hemangiosarcoma but obviously I'm not a canine oncologist, perhaps get a second opinion? The prognosis of hemangiosarcoma meaning only a few weeks before being fatal is in reference to when the cancer has metastasised to major organs, particularly the lungs. If your dog's lungs are clear and in particular if the tumours are not on organs at all you have more options to fight this horrible disease and plenty of reason to hope. Stay strong and don't give up hope, good luck to you and your dog *hugs* Edited June 27, 2008 by Sam&Saki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemstone Posted June 27, 2008 Author Share Posted June 27, 2008 Could this be a different type of hemangio to the really bad one that kills so quickly? Oh RMC I am so very, very sorry. Hemangiosarcoma is a horrible, quick and brutal cancer, I lost my beautiful girl Kia to it last year. What you are describing does not sound like hemangiosarcoma but obviously I'm not a canine oncologist, perhaps get a second opinion? The prognosis of hemangiosarcoma meaning only a few weeks before being fatal is in reference to when the cancer has mestasised to major organs, particularly the lungs. If your dog's lungs are clear and in particular if the tumours are not on organs at all you have more options to fight this horrible disease and plenty of reason to hope. Stay strong and don't give up hope, good luck to you and your dog *hugs* oh no - so sorry to hear about Kia - its such a shock isnt it? There is a senior vet at the practice I go to who has been on annual leave. She is due back next week and I will book a consult with her. Dont want to sound ageist but some of the vets look like teenagers - I want a vet with wrinkles!!! I am googling hemangiosarcoma and there does seem to be 2 types. One is very aggressive (Kia's??) and the skin type is less aggressive. Callies xrays did not show anything in her internal organs so that has got to be good... Its information overload on the net though... thanks for your message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam&Saki Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 oh no - so sorry to hear about Kia - its such a shock isnt it? There is a senior vet at the practice I go to who has been on annual leave. She is due back next week and I will book a consult with her. Dont want to sound ageist but some of the vets look like teenagers - I want a vet with wrinkles!!! I am googling hemangiosarcoma and there does seem to be 2 types. One is very aggressive (Kia's??) and the skin type is less aggressive. Callies xrays did not show anything in her internal organs so that has got to be good... Its information overload on the net though... thanks for your message Even though my Kia was quite a good old age, especially for a giant dog, it was a horrible shock. If it makes you feel more comfortable to see the senior vets do it, who cares if it's ageist, hehe When diagnosed I was told what Kia had was extremely aggressive, she was given 10 days. She in fact lasted 6 weeks before being in any way sick or in pain so I am grateful I had all that time to take her out and about and spend quality time having fun with her. Tumours in the skin are so much more treatable than on organs. You have so many options. Surgery, if not that then chemo, if not that then steroids, if not that then there's another type of medication (name escapes me ATM.) I believe radiotherapy is out for skin tumours but there are so many other treatments - if you can avoid total worrying overload metldown research is good, you have hope and so many options Oh and Hill's Prescription n/d is good for feeding the dog but starving the cancer, might be worth talking to the senior vet about too. Sorry, hope I didn't just contribute to the info overload :/ Good luck again & stay strong,you can fight this x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 (edited) rmc: Thanks for the kind words. Since you've caught this disease in the early stages I'd ask the vet for a referral to an oncologist. Sophie wasn't expected to survive beyond the end of January and she's still going, though she's winding down now. I declined both surgery and chemo and her oncologist prescribed a drug regime. I won't put Sophie through unnecessary and painful procedures that won't cure her or put her into remission. She is pain free and that's my priority for her. Oncologists are up to date on the various trials around the world, more so than the local vet and may be able to offer you a treatment that could put your dog into remission. They also have access to the latest drugs available for cancer treatment. I'm hoping for the best for you and Kia. That vet sounded very brash. I hope you can speak with your usual vet and get more detailed information and advice. Sam&Saski: The oncologist gave me a couple of cans of Hills n/d to try. It smells foul and the first ingredient is beef byproduct. I won't feed byproducts to my dogs. There are home made cancer starving diets and Sophie has an alkaline diet. Cancer needs acid to survive and starving the cancer cells of acid is the objective. I feed no carbs or sugar, she has a high protein diet. Edited June 27, 2008 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayne's Mum Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I did a bit of research on my own. From what I understood, this type of cancer is comparable to say a jellyfish. The body (visible lump on dog) and the tentacles (inside the dog) Hence, when a lump is removed, the path results will tell if enough surrounding tissue has been removed with the lump because those "tentacles" just continue to spread and grow below the surface. Does this make sense. Like a maze of cobwebs if you like. Women with endometeosis would understand the concept. They thought that they had removed it all in my boy but obviously not. Less than 6 months after removal of lump, another lump surfaced and he was beyond help. But every case is different. Some are lucky. Hope this helps a little. Probably, in your heart, not at all. I'm really sorry for your doggie. All the very best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 I feel for you rmc... I lost my dear Shadow from this insideous disease a few years ago. Hers was in her mouth and it was only 2 weeks from first discovery of a small growth to having to pts. Good vibes being sent your way hoping that your baby's lump was found so early that she makes a full recovery... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemstone Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 My boy Jeep was diagnosed with this a few months ago. The lump was on his sheath and I had it removed, but I wanted to make sure that this lump was a primary and not a secondary, so I had his chest x-rayd to see if there was anything on his heart and also had an ultrasound done to check his spleen area. These came back clear and it looks as though I had caught it early.They can metastisize (reoccur) so I do have to keep an eye on him. What Luciens Mum posted pretty much sums it up. Dont panic too much yet (I know its hard), but get in and get the x-rays and ultrasounds done and go from there. Once you know either way you can work out what you want to do. Good luck and hopefully they caught it early. Mel Hi this is a good story... Jeep is still with you :D Is he is usual self now, does he seem healthy and happy? This is what I want for my girl, I want quality. I have had xrays done - nothing showing up good luck with Jeep hope he continues to do well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemstone Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 I did a bit of research on my own.From what I understood, this type of cancer is comparable to say a jellyfish. The body (visible lump on dog) and the tentacles (inside the dog) Hence, when a lump is removed, the path results will tell if enough surrounding tissue has been removed with the lump because those "tentacles" just continue to spread and grow below the surface. Does this make sense. Like a maze of cobwebs if you like. Women with endometeosis would understand the concept. They thought that they had removed it all in my boy but obviously not. Less than 6 months after removal of lump, another lump surfaced and he was beyond help. But every case is different. Some are lucky. Hope this helps a little. Probably, in your heart, not at all. I'm really sorry for your doggie. All the very best. :D HI do you mean that after your boys surgery they told you they got clear margins and everything looked ok? I have a feeling that is what will happen in my case. So I am preparing myself for only a few months - anything more will be a bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemstone Posted June 28, 2008 Author Share Posted June 28, 2008 I feel for you rmc...I lost my dear Shadow from this insideous disease a few years ago. Hers was in her mouth and it was only 2 weeks from first discovery of a small growth to having to pts. Good vibes being sent your way hoping that your baby's lump was found so early that she makes a full recovery... T. sorry to hear about Shadow - 2 weeks is not long enough to say goodbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 I had an aged bitch with a tumour kind of the size of a golf ball but slightly elongated. We sent off a sample to the lab and it was diagnosed as an haemangiosarcoma, but could not get a malignancy on it. As she was quite aged and had other problems as well as the fact that in her life she had had 8 abdominal surgeries including 3 for GDV I decided not to do surgery. She died nearly 2 years later with tumour still intact from dilated cardiomyopathy at the age of almost 12 years. I understand that this is very unusual and I was very lucky, big hugs to all that have lost dogs to this awful disease, I have been in tears reading your experiences and realise just how lucky I was. Goodluck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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