Is There Any Hope For Jake.. Seperation Anxiety

[Michelleva]

Last October we adopted an older cavalier, by the name of Jake. To say he's had a sad life is an understatement. He spent the first 7 years of his life in a backyard, with very little interaction with people. Being a cav, he's very people oriented. I originally planned to get a pup but when I found out about Jake I felt so sorry for him, so took him in and have been loving him ever since. He's a great little dog, who has just recently turned 8.

Now the only problem I have with him is he goes into panick mode whenever I put him outside. I think its got alot to do with his past and I'm trying to help him deal with it.

99% of the time he is inside with me, and I'm his person, he loves me above all else here. But anytime I tell him to go outside he protests by barking constantly at me. I know he's barking at me and not other dogs because he stands at the back door looking directly at me and barking like crazy. Normally I just let him back in beause I don't want the neighbours to complain.

I've just been washing the floor here and didn't want him inside walking on the wet tiles, so I put him outside with his bed, and he did his usual routine of yap yap yap. This time I've ignored him and not given him any eye contact. He was quiet for a while but now he's starting to bark again. Am I going about this the wrong way?

Don't get me wrong I have no intention of leaving him out there, he's a member of the family now, but I just hate that being outside makes him so miserable. Even if he goes outside with our 3yo son he just stands at the door and barks. To start with he would chase our son around but he seems to have gotton over that, he doesn't know how to play at all. Its a bit sad really.

Jake has improved so much in the time he's been with me, he's clean, has no fleas and loves his walkies. This is the last real problem I have with him. I'd love to hear any advice you have.

Thanks in advance,

[WalandLibby]

While you work on SRD it's actually important not to let the dog have these panics - they set you right back and they don't provide any opportunity for his independence to develop. Think you might need a pro to help with this. PM if you'd like me to refer you to someone.

Edited June 10, 2008 by WalandLibby

[Miss Helena]

Is there any treat he particularly likes that you could give him when he has to be outside, eg meaty bone or similar as a distraction?

Sounds like it's pretty ingrained behaviour, perhaps professional help might be best?

[Michelleva]

Thanks, I would like to try some other tactics myself first. I'm home alot with him since I'm a stay at home Mum, so I have the time to work with him. If I don't have any success I will PM you.

He's very obedient overall, I've taught him some nice manners since he arrived too. He now sits and will not come inside until he's given the command. He also won't eat his dinner till he's told. So I've learnt you can teach an old dog new tricks, I think this last problem is more about undoing the past and assuring him that I will let him inside again and of course that he is always going to be loved.

[WalandLibby]

Thanks, I would like to try some other tactics myself first. I'm home alot with him since I'm a stay at home Mum, so I have the time to work with him. If I don't have any success I will PM you.

The professional won't do the work for you - there will be plenty for you to do, believe me ;-) (SRD - if it is SRD that he's got - is often a *lot* of work to resolve.)

It is a problem that needs to be treated in a highly systematic, structured way and I really don't think most ppl could do it without someone to guide them.

Edited June 10, 2008 by WalandLibby

[Stitch]

What about teaching him the stay then gradually increasing the time he has to stay.

Then you could progress on to moving away, then increasing that to being outside by himself.

If he gets used to you always coming back then that should reduce his anxiety.

Of course it would have to be a very gradual process.

[cwm]

Also, if it is just when you put him outside, just do it for very short bursts to start.

But only let him in when he's quiet. so if you put him out, he's quiet for 2 minutes, then let him in. just so he gets used to the fact you're not deserting him.

there's some great bach flower remedies & homeopathics that may help too.

Holistic animal medicines

Pet Homeopath

[Michelleva]

Thanks guys, that some great advice, and I'm going to start doing a little bit every day with him. I'm not even sure if what he has is seperation anxiety because I get the feeling if I put him outside he's just demanding to come back in, because thats where he wants to be. He's definitely not destructive at all.

I have rescue remedy here which I've given to the cats before, so I'll give him some of that before he goes outside too. The funny thing is when he knows its school pick up time, he doesn't bark at all. I put him outside, leave and all is well. He's just barking when he's outside and he knows I'm inside, whether he can see me or not.

[WalandLibby]

Mich&Jake - Can you leave him in the house and go outside without him freaking out?

[Michelleva]

Yes, I can. If I go outside to say hang washing up, he will walk to the door with me, then just go back to his bed. He's not pacing or anything like that and he's definitely not barking for me to come back. Maybe he has an irrational fear of the backyard - is that far fetched?

[Erny]

I'm not even sure if what he has is seperation anxiety because I get the feeling if I put him outside he's just demanding to come back in, because thats where he wants to be.

I'm glad you raised this and have thought on this possibility. It is one that I was thinking whilst reading the posts in your thread. And of course if you don't identify 'cause' you run a risk of reinforcing the dog's goals, which can in itself make the already problematic behaviour worse.

What is often a tell-tale sign is your dog's behaviour when you are away. Naturally, this can be difficult to assess .... given that you're not there to do so. But engaging the assistance of your neighbours (who may be able to see from their windows, or at least hear - if SA behaviour results in barking) or you might be able to sneak back (easier said than done .... great noses and great ears!).

A trainer/behaviourist helps to identify cause and structure a program. Support and advice should also be there 'for along the way', as programs generally need 'tweaking' as the behaviour changes.

ETA:

"Separation Anxiety" is anxiety based on the dog's belief that without a certain person/animal being present, normal adaptive function is not possible.

"Lack of independance training" carries similarities, although it is not dependant on a certain person/animal ..... it is dependant upon any person/animal being present.

"Denied Access" is another thing altogether - where the dog believes that if you are there he must have access to you.

"Attention Seeking" .... well, is just that, attention seeking, and is a way that a dog has learnt to achieve what he wants when he wants it. Not the dog's fault. Ours. :D (As is usually the case! LOL)

ETA:

Have you tried 'waiting it out'?

In otherwords, how long have you left it for with your dog barking? Does he cease after what period of time?

Hint : sometimes it's best to alert the neighbours that you are working on this problem but that part of 'working on the problem' will appear to them that you are dismissing the barking as a problem at all.

Edited June 10, 2008 by Erny

[Jigsaw]

Good on you for taking on Jake! Sounds like he had a rough start. I'm sure there'll be lots of advice to come on this. Firstly though have you done any training with him? What about using a crate rather than the back yard? Using it without shutting him in at first but using it as a safe place for him with maybe a jumper of yours for your smell, putting lots of enticing treats inside. Some dogs become anxious when outside but not when inside. Seperation anxiety can be very hard to stop, sometimes you can lessen it to some extent. Does he have any sight or hearing problems that may make his anxiety worse?

There is some debate as to whether to reassure a dog or not. Usually it is best to ignore the behaviour as you are rewarding their barking, whining etc. Sometimes you can use a diversion such as a bone, stuffed kong etc. I'm sure you'll get plenty more ideas on here!

ETA - seems you've already answered some of these questions! Oh - if it is SA the symptons usually occur very early after you leave, so if you leave him outside and can sneak back and listen or get the neighbours to report you might be able to distinguish whether it is SA or just him being demanding!

Edited June 10, 2008 by Jigsaw

[Michelleva]

Well I've done the school run as per normal, and Jake behaved the same way he normally would. I generally put him outside with his comfy bed, lock the house, get my toddler ready, then leave, in that order. I put him outside, his first reaction is to bark, he probably barked 4 or 5 times, then when he heard me go out the door, stopped barking completely. This is why I suspect he's not barking the whole time I'm out. But the second he hears my car in the driveway on my return the barking starts up again. Once again I think he's telling me, you're home I need to be inside.

At night he sleeps in the bathroom, and if its lousy weather and I'm going out for a couple of hours I put him in there.

My daughter and I were discussing this on the way home, and now we're starting to think that he's equal to the humans in the family. Therefore if you're inside I should be too. I think for him, he had a life of being ignored for years before then has come here and in the matter of 24 hours his whole world has turned upside down, and for the better.

My thoughts earlier about him being scared of the backyard don't seem right either, because if I'm in the backyard with him he's perfectly happy to be there.

I think he needs to learn where he belongs in the pack, how do I go about teaching him that? I have made some changes already by not allowing him to sit on the couch, he has a dog bed and thats where he sleeps. He also must sit and wait and not come inside until given the command. I also have him eating his dinner on command. I know when the kids take him for a walk, he's the first one racing through the door, so I must get them to change that too.

Do any of you think I'm on the right wavelength, or way of base?

I'm so happy you're all helping me with this issue, I feel I can make a change for the better, we just need to put a few ideas together. Dog obedience is definitely a possiblity too. He's had little to no training in his life, thats fairly obvious.

[WalandLibby]

This behaviour can be understood easily without reference to hierarchy. If a dog wants to get through a barrier (fence, door, crate door) it will tend to bark. When that works (the door opens) the behaviour is reinforced and becomes more likely to be used again.

[Erny]

I think for him, he had a life of being ignored for years before ...

From your description in your preceding post it doesn't sound like separation related behaviour. In regards to the part of your post I've quoted above, it is also possible that his previous owners simply (inadvertently?) reinforced his barking behaviour. If they hadn't, it is less likely that he would display this behavour.

I dog sat a cavvy last Christmas. His behaviour was very similar .... very demanding. Over the course of a few weeks (and remember, I'm only there for a comparative short time) he learnt that barking does not get him what he wants. Being calm and quiet does.

Daily exercise helped him a lot too. At the beginning, this little guy acted as though his brain was in so many places all at once he didn't know what to do first. Barging through doorways was a big thing of his too, as was jumping up on and all over people. He almost made me giddy with his manic performances. But not too long into the routine of walking; feeding; grooming ... each day, every day .... he really settled down. Still a ball of thrill and happiness, but really evidently more 'steady' in his mind. In that time he had also learnt to show self-control and would wait in a sit position (wriggling to get out of his skin, I admit) until I gave him the word to come through. Jumping up had all but disappeared ... though there were those initial moments he'd forget himself with the glee of my arrival, but he would quickly check himself into a sit position (inwardly turning somersaults, I could see LOL).

His owners asked me, on their return, whether I'd trained him. They were so thrilled with his behaviour (and had never thought his previous behaviour was a problem, until they saw how much better he could be) they determined that he was going to receive the calm assertive leadership from them, along with daily walks for mental stimulation.

Sorry M&J .... this takes away from your story, but your cavvy so reminds me of this little guy that I took care of at daily visits for a few weeks.

Try it out. Let him bark. Ignore him (including no eye contact). Shut the blinds on him if you need to (ie if he persists with the barking). When he goes quiet, wait for a moment, and if he's still quiet, let him in. Progress along these lines until you can increase time. Best time to let him in is when he's not looking/begging to get in.

Edited June 10, 2008 by Erny

[Michelleva]

Thanks Erny, I will definitely give it a go, and let you know how our boy progresses. Jake does sound very similar to the cav you encountered. He does love his exercise too. We have a park and big oval two doors away and we take him for a walk then let him run around the oval with us, he absolutely loves it, his tail doesn't stop wagging the whole time.

Tonight I also addressed his other problem which is being a total pest when we are having dinner. While I was cooking I practised making him sit and stay, he did it so I gave him a little treat. He was like putty in my hands. It was amazing, he sat in the corner of the room because I told him too, he kept an eye on proceedings, but the improvement in him was so fantastic, everyone especially my daughter thought I had him under a spell. It was a great confidence booster.

[Michelleva]

Best time to let him in is when he's not looking/begging to get in.

I can do all of that, but the last part will be difficult because he's always standing at the back door barking, but I'm going to give it a go today. Jake is my project at the moment. His behaviour will improve, I'm determined and since he's so food orientated its not hard to get his attention, I learnt that last night. Thanks again Erny.

[JulesP]

You might want to let your neighbours know what is going on so they don't get grumpy thinking that it is an ongoing thing and that you are just letting the dog bark.

[Michelleva]

You might want to let your neighbours know what is going on so they don't get grumpy thinking that it is an ongoing thing and that you are just letting the dog bark.

I will have to do that. He's been outside since having his breakfast and currently having a temper tantrum because he's not getting his way. He pauses for a few seconds and I think oh he's going to be quiet, then he starts up again. I haven't said anything and the blind is down. I've been standing in the kitchen with the treats at the ready for the last 20 mins, geez this is hard. But he's just doing what he's always done and it has worked, so I'm the one who has to set the rules now. He won't like it, but he'll get over it.

This feels the same as when I had to teach my 6 month old son that he needed to put himself to sleep instead of being rocked by Mum. He cried for an hour, but then it was all over.

[Michelleva]

Well we got there in the end and survived JUST! I was so close to giving in to him, but my will held out longer than his. When I opened the blind and the door he wasn't even standing there, he'd run off somewhere, I had to call him to come inside.

These things are alot easier to talk about doing than actually living through. It took about an hour the first time.