Help With A Foster Cocker Spaniel

[MadWoofter]

Hoping someone can give me some advice here.

I am currently fostering Tommy, a 2yr old cocker spaniel. Tommy was kept in a pen for two years, and I have spent a fair bit of time and effort getting him to stop constantly spinning in circles, being completely and utterly food obsessed, not being able to walk on a lead, and given him some basic behavioural guidelines. He has come ahead in leaps and bounds. Tommy was rehomed after a month, but unfortunately he was returned - not because of any of his behavioural problems (the new owners were keen to help him) but because their first dog completely stressed out with him being around. It was decided that is was better for Tommy to come back to me rather than go into a kennel situation where he could potentially revert to his previous spinning / neurotic behaviour.

I have now come across a problem where Tommy has 'bonded' with me rather well. So well in fact, that when I am home he cannot stand to be out of my sight, and sits and howls and cries if he cannot see me. The problem is he will not come to find me, but rather he expects me to go to him, so he sits on the sofa and makes this god-awful noise for hours, or until I crack the sh**s and go to him to get him to stop, if only for 5 minutes. Now while I know that responding to his howling is not the right thing to do, it really is as a last resort, and I really do let him go for quite some time before I respond. I am seriously concerned about the neighbours and the noise issue, as I am ready to shoot the little bustard some times, and I'm tolerant!

There is no way I am going to increase how often I respond to his howling, as I do know that it's rewarding him for bad behaviour, and will ultimately not help his chances of being rehomed. What I need is a way to get him to stop howling which will not be seen as a reward. I try and call him so he can come to me, but the demanding little creature expects me to go to him.

Any suggestions on what I can do?

[Cosmolo]

Two choices- extinction train/ ignore- must be 100% consistent every time and not respond knowing this may take hours initially! Alternately, give some kind of correction- i would probably use a long line and give a lead correction from a distance. Is he crate trained at all?

[poodlefan]

I'm not a trainer of Cosmolo's experience but am just musing... do you think he understands that he has the option to come and find you? This sounds somewhat like learned helplessness to me. He won't come because he doesn't understand he can - he hasn't experienced such freedom of movement before.

Maybe you could work on a 'come' command -first to where he can see you, then working up to just out of sight and so on.

What does he do when you actually leave him - do you know? Is it the same?

[MadWoofter]

Cosmolo seeing as he was confined for a long period he is absolutely petrified of crates or anything restricting like that. I am worried that crate training him will scare him and undo all the work that's been put into him. Quite happy to give it a go if you think it could work though. The situation is only like this when I'm at home and indoors.

Poodlefan, I don't know whether it's because he "can't" find me or because he "won't". I have a feeling it's more the latter. He will come to me when I call him, and sit at my feet, then he will get up and move around again, go back to 'his' spot on the sofa and start howling. It gets to a point where no matter how much I call him he will just sit there and sing. When I leave the house he sings for a while but not constantly like when I am here.

[poodlefan]

Cosmolo seeing as he was confined for a long period he is absolutely petrified of crates or anything restricting like that. I am worried that crate training him will scare him and undo all the work that's been put into him. Quite happy to give it a go if you think it could work though. The situation is only like this when I'm at home and indoors.

Poodlefan, I don't know whether it's because he "can't" find me or because he "won't". I have a feeling it's more the latter. He will come to me when I call him, and sit at my feet, then he will get up and move around again, go back to 'his' spot on the sofa and start howling. It gets to a point where no matter how much I call him he will just sit there and sing. When I leave the house he sings for a while but not constantly like when I am here.

For a dog with this level of psychological harm, I suggest you give him the benefit of the doubt.

I suggest you try Cosmolo's suggestion and attach a long line to him. See if rattling it when he howls will get him to move towards you. Is a visit from a behaviourist an option?

Edited May 8, 2008 by poodlefan

[squeak]

This is a suggestion from a very novice trainer, so please feel free to ignore

How about gradually increasing the time/distance that you are away from him and rewarding any periods of silence. From what you say, he has claimed the sofa. Is there anyway that you can pop out of his sight (for a nanosecond) then return before he starts the noise and reward his silence - and then gradually increase the time that you disappear from his sight (one nanosecond, two nanosecond, etc). If you cannot even leave him from a nanosecond, then I would be looking at gradually increasing the distance that you move away from him, and rewarding that.

I would probably also consider teaching a "quiet" command, starting when he is actually quiet. When he is calm and quiet, say the word "quiet", or settle, or whatever you choose and reward that.

As I said, I am a very novice trainer, but just thought I would put the suggestions out as food for thought - quite happy for anyone else to critique them.

Edited May 8, 2008 by squeak

[Cockerlover]

HI madeoofter As a cocker owner i fully understand what you r saying ;but because of tommy:background i am dubious to advise!they are very clingy dogs & love to be heard i know!! but i feel a lot more training is required with the poor darlin!!you have done an incrdible job so far!!so please keep up the good work I am sure someone here with behavior issues knowledge will have the ansew; but the suggestions already made re the long lead sound pretty good;he will continue to sing all the time he knows you r going to him ;they r as cunning as s h rats!!!but so worth continuing with training ;as hard as it may seem @ the moment ;he will get the message evenyually ;maybe have a look @seperation anixety symptons ; sorry cant be of more assistance;but again i thankyou for all the work you have put into this boy.please keep us updated.

[squeak]

** bump **

[kaywoman68]

Clicker training?

[dougal]

Madwoofter, gotta agree with Cockerlover, they really are cunning little buggars. I have two cockers, one that is perfectly reasonable, one that likes to be heard and noticed. The latter "sings" constantly. To stop it I have found if I make a noise to stop the singing = eg knock on the laundry door which stops the noise (bang on a window), then when she has been quiet for a bit, reward the quiet, it breaks the cycle, but I need to do this constantly. She may be good for a couple of weeks, then revert to her old behaviour. I avoid going to her, or letting her see me, just trying to break the pattern, then reward something good. With Tommy's sensitivities I don't know if the knocking will scare him

Good luck..... they are very clever at getting their own way.

[MadWoofter]

Thanks again for all the insightful comments.

Squeak - I've been quite spoilt with my fosters. While they've had their own inherent problems, I've not had one quite so demanding, or quite so vocal about it - I'm so used to being able to wander about my own house without a horrible banshee sound screaming from another room that I'm sure part of the problem is me 'expecting' his behaviour to be better. I really like the idea of slowly getting him used to it, and thanks for suggesting it. Sometimes it's the solutions right in front of your face that you miss !

KW - I'm not sure about clicker training, only because at the moment he is still so completely unfocused on anything else except being out in the big wide world I'm not sure I could gain his attention long enough for it to be affective. Saying that, I am a novice at clicker training so if someone with more experience thinks it would work of course I'd give it a go (and learn more myself).

Dougal - I've tried that ! I've gone from making 'interesting' noises to making other distracting noises to giving the other two dogs huge amounts of attention when he starts up. All that happens is the other two are quite happy when the s**t starts singing as they now expect more pats . I don't think I've ever met a more demanding creature !

Will work on the long lead, and the increased distance and reward.

Thanks again everyone for all your suggestions.

[squeak]

Just wondering how you were going with Tommy?

[squeak]

** bump **

[squeak]

** bump ** again now that Mad Woofter is back online :D