Miranda Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Completly forgotten to mention one important thing: When Quentin started to have lots of runny, smelly poos, I stopped feeding him everything except for EP but nothing has changed. Yes it would have been helpful if you'd mentioned that, would have saved me a lot of typing . Are you feeding EP Holistic as the ordinary varieties contain corn and both my boys have loose poo if they eat anything containing corn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Thanks Miranda! I agree with most things said here, I'm just interested in other people opinion as the chat this morning completly blew me away. Having 20 people simultaneously saying "OMG - you can't feed bones to a dog!" just freaked me! They'd be shocked by how many DOLers do then!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanaussi Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 Sorry to go slightly OT, but in science dogs are viewed as omnivores NOT carnivores - they can conserve nitrogen and do some hind gut fermenting (like a horse) amongst other features. I'm not saying fruit/veg should form a large part of their diet - I'm just a stickler for detail Thanks for that, Spotty! I should have remembered from my studies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanaussi Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 Completly forgotten to mention one important thing: When Quentin started to have lots of runny, smelly poos, I stopped feeding him everything except for EP but nothing has changed. Yes it would have been helpful if you'd mentioned that, would have saved me a lot of typing . Are you feeding EP Holistic as the ordinary varieties contain corn and both my boys have loose poo if they eat anything containing corn. Sorry! But it was very interesting to read and I've learnt a lot with your post! Yes, I'm feeding EP Holistic. When I first got Quentin he was on Supercoat which I mixed with the ordinary EP - no problems, even with the veggies and all that (which I started slowly) but I then changed to EP Holistic and unfortunately I'm not 100% sure if that was when the problem began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Completly forgotten to mention one important thing: When Quentin started to have lots of runny, smelly poos, I stopped feeding him everything except for EP but nothing has changed.@Tess: I always thought dogs are carnivores as well but meanwhile lots of people (including breeders, vets ect) have told me this is not true... They sometime say it because they think the opposite of an obligate carnivore like a cat, is an ominvore, it's not They can and will scavange and eat vegetables but physiologically they are carnivores. BTW, I am on an English/European based Collie forum and most do not feed bones either. I think raw fed dogs are a lot more common in the US and Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tess32 Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Oops, not what I have read spotted devil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavandra Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 I agree to cut out the veges & carbs...........I have always fed raw bones & have never had a problem ever, and I have a Toy breed! I would say he has a stomach bug, Rasberry cordial, Cooked mashed Pumpkin or Probiotics such as Yakult will help get the gut bacteria back to normal, unless it is something more sinister of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 You could also try some Protexin probiotic liquid or powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aranyoz Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 You could also try some Protexin probiotic liquid or powder. Definately agree with this. I use the powder it is excellent in these sorts of problems. Also did the problem start before or after his last vaccination? Think carefully on this as it may be a reaction to the vaccine and something you should be aware of. Or has it occurred after intestinal worming, heartworm meds or flea preventitive treatments. All or any of these could be involved if he is a little immune suppressed at the moment. I would also get rid of the every thing that isn't raw and cut back on the veggies. Changing from raw to cooked may be confusing his metabolism as different enzimes are needed for digesting cooked and raw foods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faolmor Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Completly forgotten to mention one important thing: When Quentin started to have lots of runny, smelly poos, I stopped feeding him everything except for EP but nothing has changed. Hi OA Sometimes, if a dog's digestive system is already under stress, even foods they can tolerate will still upset them. This is because of the inflammation in the gut - basically, anything going through that gut will cause further irritation. Such inflammation is also likely to show a false positive high WBC in a stool sample, because his immune system will be desperately trying to repair the damage (something bear in mind when you get the results). If you know there's a food Quentin does tolerate, take him right back to that food only for a least a week - maybe even two. I would choose something quite bland and easily digested. (Eg, just feed EP for two weeks exclusively, nothing else...no vegies, no raw meats. Feed him little amounts and often - as I'm sure you're already doing anyway.) This will give time for the inflammation to settle (fingers crossed). Once you (hopefully) notice an improvement, add one more food to the diet and see what happens. If there is no improvement, I'd be looking at the EP itself. It is a rich food, and maybe he's just not tolerating it at the moment, for whatever reason. Puppies have immature digestive systems. This means that each time you add a new food, his gut will need time to build up the bacteria required to cope with that new food. Constantly adding vegies to his diet might seem like a healthy idea, but might in fact be over-stimulating his little tummy more than he can cope with just now. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Oops, not what I have read spotted devil Sorry to go OT again Tess - I know there are a few promoters of raw feeding that insist that dogs are carnivores but I have yet to come across a journal article (and I am drowning in them at the moment!) or animal nutritionist who agrees. I have no reference for this next bit of info but I have heard that when some wolves were first brought into captivity, they were fed a carnivorous diet but suffered from kidney failure. It was then that it was discovered that the wolves were scavenging for a significant quantity of fruit/veg in the wild and this was subsequently introduced to the diet successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 7, 2008 Share Posted May 7, 2008 Oops, not what I have read spotted devil Sorry to go OT again Tess - I know there are a few promoters of raw feeding that insist that dogs are carnivores but I have yet to come across a journal article (and I am drowning in them at the moment!) or animal nutritionist who agrees. I have no reference for this next bit of info but I have heard that when some wolves were first brought into captivity, they were fed a carnivorous diet but suffered from kidney failure. It was then that it was discovered that the wolves were scavenging for a significant quantity of fruit/veg in the wild and this was subsequently introduced to the diet successfully. The study I saw showed wolves eating mostly rodents with some berries between caribou migrations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanaussi Posted May 7, 2008 Author Share Posted May 7, 2008 Thank you very much for all your interesting posts! I've been to the Vet tonight with a stool sample. No visual sign of worm, undigested food ect. But I gotta wait for the cultures. The Vet recommended to put Quentin on a prescription diet of 'i/d' food for 2 days and then continue 6 weeks with sensitivity food. After that we add some different foods slowly and see if there's an intolerance. Faolmor, sounds like what the Vet said. Aranyoz, no it did start before his last vaccine/worming/tick & flea treatment. Thank you all. Hope we can work this out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 I have no reference for this next bit of info but I have heard that when some wolves were first brought into captivity, they were fed a carnivorous diet but suffered from kidney failure. I would be interested to hear where you got that from, as I have worked in Wolf conservation centres in the US and definitely have never heard it. Yes, we fed the wolves on whole prey and other meat/bones (and no, they didn't eat the stomach contents). Some very healthy long-lives wolves in those packs. Most of the problem in captive packs/individuals is usually seen in those fed a commercial diet. As a result most don't do that now. The study I saw showed wolves eating mostly rodents with some berries between caribou migrations. That particular book was shown later to be pure fiction. The author was actually no researcher at all and was shown to be a fraud! Much better research into wolf diet and eating behaviour has been done my David Mech and the like. Getting back to the OP's issues - Has Coccidia been ruled out? A stool sample should tell you if this is the culprit. Also have checked your water source? It may not be the food at all. Particularly watch your dog does not have access to any standing or stagnant water. Again, a stool sample should rule out things like Giardia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 That particular book was shown later to be pure fiction. The author was actually no researcher at all and was shown to be a fraud! Much better research into wolf diet and eating behaviour has been done my David Mech and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Goodluck with the hills rubbish stuff full of nasties. Personally i would be given straight away probiotic(not yoghurt) Tablets from the chemist or the protexin as already suggested & then going straight to a bland diet. Pumpkin mushed with what they tolerate easily.(dry,chicken if they stomach it but no rice or pasta.) In all honestly i would even go back to supacoat if i thought that would settle the tummy & slowly start again Remember EP may be fine for many dogs but like all food doesnt mean it will be for every dog & sometimes we have to feed something different for the dogs comfort & health. For example my irish luves turkey necks but gets bad runs if he gets raw meat more than 3 times a week. My english gets the runs badly with turkey necks.Does fine on mutton & lamb barf patties but again only a few times a week. My english thrives on only one dry food.Neither are given too much as it simply overdoses there system so when i find something that works well i stick with it. Also consider that sometimes just simply over doing it in activities can give dogs the runs.If you do alot of activities maybe take astep back for a while or cut down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanaussi Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 Thanks, but Quen finished 'the hills rubbish stuff full of nasties' and is now on a RC sensitivity diet. His excrements have reduced size and frequency dramatically. His sample did not show any signs of indigestion or intestianl problems. I've tried pumpkin + chicken before and there was no change. I gave him protexin and that only made matters worse. But it's refreshing to see when you ask 100 people you get 100 different opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormie Posted May 9, 2008 Share Posted May 9, 2008 Please just make sure that the RC is suitable for a growing large breed dog. Check to make sure the calcium/phosphorus ratio is correct and the protein and fat content isn't too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oceanaussi Posted May 9, 2008 Author Share Posted May 9, 2008 Please just make sure that the RC is suitable for a growing large breed dog. Check to make sure the calcium/phosphorus ratio is correct and the protein and fat content isn't too high. Gee, that's one beautiful pup in your signature! What ratio should I be looking for and which protein and fat content would be too high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now