Stresses Dog

[LA-OC]

G'Day all,

I got a Lab and just come back from ADT training last weekend.

(1st come is free ).

It's seem that my dog have a bad experience before I got her (I got her last 6 months ago). Next month she will 2 years old.

she's seem ok/normal in our house (bark, playing, eating, etc)

but when she meets some people who she doesn't know, she will laying down, scared & shaking or run away to the other side.

It's also happening when we've our afternoon walk around our blok.

some area which she doesn't want to passed, she will stop and try to pull the lead and find the other way.

Sometimes, I pull back the lead and give her some encourage to pass that area.

Last weekend (in ADT training), she laying down under the bench and scared to come out.

after waiting (+/- 15 min) while we are having a discussion with the trainer, finally she want to come out with some little pull on the lead.

it's confirmed by the trainer that my dog is stresses and need to put her on the Kennel for 3 weeks and after that will continue with their obedience class.

FYI, as per my explanation above, my dog is normal in our house.

she will sit, lay, catch, down, stand if I urge her.

It's not cheap to put my dog in kennel for 3 weeks.

but this is the best and the fastest way to minimize her stress, they said.

Meanwhile, I'll keep bring her for the walk every afternoon and hoping that you guys can give me some alternative way to minimize her stress.

Thanks b4 and hv a great day.

[CP*]

Don't put her in a kennel!! She was probably not socialised as a pup but as she is only 2 years old and a lab you still have an opportunity to help her. But part of solving the problem is to build her trust in you and you can't do that if someone else is training her at a kennel. Kennelling her should only be a last resort.

Keep up regular obedience training - she will gain a lot more confidence that way, other people will know of a good obedience club in your area, but I think try another club. Where do you live?

Did you get her from the RSPCA? I noticed you are from Melbourne. The Burwood RSPCA hold really good seminars for dog owners by guest behaviourists - there is one coming up about fearful dogs (the seminars are only $5). Have a look on the website for details. They also do individual behaviour consults.

This problem is not unusual and there is a lot of information on the internet. Here are a couple of websites that have info on fearful dogs http://www.k9events.com/behaviourF_M.htm

http://www.wonderpuppy.net/canwehelp/index.html

You may also need to get in contact with a reputable behaviourist for some one-on-one training. There are behaviour trainers on DOL that can give you more advice on what to do. Perhaps Erny will read this thread - if not maybe PM him for advice.

Good luck. I know how heart breaking it is (and how expensive it can get) when your dog has a few probs.

[Rusky]

I would think kennel will increase her stress, in fact I would put my neck out and say don't do it. If she is hiding let her come out in her own time, get as many people as you can to come to your place and ignore her completely, she will come out in her own time. Then don't make any fuss, you need to ask visitors to cooperate with you. Whatever you do don't tug her out from her safe place, leave her alone, let her build her confidence with people. She is giving you all the signals that she is afraid, she needs to learn to trust people...making her will make it worse. When you pass people in the street, just let her stop and look away, soon as she is comfortable move on. I wouldn't probably walk her till she is perfectly happy with anyone who comes to your place then pop her in the car and go to a park where people are and just reward her if she is settled. Do that often unless she is stressed till she is comfortable with people at a distance...let her hide under tables...she will come out...she will learn to trust if you don't force her.

[Lablover]

but this is the best and the fastest way to minimize her stress, they said.

Dogs learn basically nothing in a kennel - in their run. 3 weeks, most sound nerved dogs take a fair amount of time to settle. Check out quarantine stations, if you ever find a person importing. Perfect example.

Did they detail "treatment"?

[Miranda]

it's confirmed by the trainer that my dog is stresses and need to put her on the Kennel for 3 weeks and after that will continue with their obedience class.

but this is the best and the fastest way to minimize her stress, they said.

I don't agree with this at all, I'm not a dog trainer, but it doesn't make any sense to me and may even make your dog worse.

[Purpley]

Did they suggest a session with the behavourist that they have at ADT?? I think that would be your first point of call and working through it with the behavourist.

BTW which one did you go to??

ETA - you said that your dog had KC last week and you went to training???

Edited May 6, 2008 by isiss

[CP*]

I assume the kenneling is an in-house training program to desensitise the dog. I know of other people doing this - sending their dogs off to doggie boot camp for behaviour issues, but only when the problem has become too difficult for them to handle themselves.

[sas]

I wouldn't be putting the dog in a kennel.

I would be searching for a qualified behaviourist and work through your dogs issues with them.

[LA-OC]

Did they suggest a session with the behavourist that they have at ADT?? I think that would be your first point of call and working through it with the behavourist.

BTW which one did you go to??

ETA - you said that your dog had KC last week and you went to training???

G'day isiss,

they suggested me to get the gold class (included this 3weeks in their kennel).

we went to ADT in south oakleigh last sunday.

Yup,.....my lab get KC 2 weeks ago and last saturday the vat confirmed is fine now.

*Caro,

Thanks for the info. will check in RSPCA web and try to attend the seminar.

Lablover,

they don't detailed the "treatment"

but what I'm understand and read in their catalog, they will teach and put our dog together with their dogs in kennel.

so my dog will more socialized with dogs and people (trainers) there.

Thanks for the input rusty,

The problem is not much of our friend will come so often to our place.

the only way to get her socialized is to bring her to the nearest park in here so we can meet lots of people and pets.

she trusted me and my wife. not a problem if only us in the house.

she act very normal and no hiding.

Thanks for the all input, guys.

[Paganman]

I went to Boronia ADT a few years back and they tried to get me to join the gold program and its bloody expensive. Theyve even got payment plans for people who carnt afford to pay in one go and it ends up costing twice as much. Theyve got other programs but they hard sell the gold I couldnt believe how hard they tried to push their programs they were worse than real estate salesmen. I didnt know they had kennels and did in house stuff maybe its a new thing anyway it stands to reason theyd push the in house training as well.

I found them way to pushy and didnt join.

[skip]

I don't know what ADT stands for but I guess it is Australian Dog training?

I went to a similar school (1st time free) with a dog somebody dumped on me as it was rather agressive. They had a similar deal but I wouldn't leave him there. I was more than happy to attend any training classes at any time otherwise.

Maybe you should investigate another behaviourist? With an unbiased opinion on what is best for the you and your dog. It is hard for anyone to say as we don't see your dog or yourself. Maybe ADT would be OK but before I spend a bit of money I like to look into all options.

Glad you are making the effort. Lucky Lab.

[haven]

Dogs learn nothing in a kennel? Certainly some kennels and trainers are better than others but seriously, what a rediculous and fundamentally incorrect statement I wonder what people like Erny, K9, Cosmolo and HR would say to that, well respected DOLers that have all had extensive experience in training dogs in a kennel environment in their time as professional trainers.

As for the Gold program at ADT being "bloody expensive", it can be less than $500 for LIFETIME training with qualified and experienced trainers and free access to qualified behaviourists at any time. Personally I think it's a pittance if that's the best club for me and my dog. Most people probably spend at least that much in dog toys, treats, accessories etc, why scrimp on the most important thing you will ever need for you and your dog? You get what you pay for.

LA-OC, I haven't seen your dog so I cannot comment personally on it's suitability to stay in a kennel for 3 weeks of training. What I can say with complete confidence is that the trainers at ADT are qualified and experienced and would not have suggested this for your dog had the needs of you and your dog not been appropriately suited. However, despite the claims of a 'hard sell', if you don't want to put your dog in the kennel then don't. It is a recommendation based on the discussion you had with a qualifed trainer about your dog and the expectations and requirements you have for training, but it is your choice. If you are unsure then I would suggest speaking with them about either the one week option or just training the dog yourself in classes.

I'm not saying that nobody else should have an opinion, nor that you shouldn't listen to any other advice, but let's have a little perspective here. It's easy for random people on the internet to sit back and tell you what's best for your dog based on their own notions and your short post and dismiss what you have been advised already, but the fact is that nobody here has seen your dog personally, assessed it's temperament in person nor spoken with you at length as to the situation and what you want to do about it. The trainer at ADT has.

Look around and consider all of you options, but at the end of the day I'd put more weight into the advice of a qualified and experienced trainer who has seen your dog in person than the rash statement of a random person online who may have little or no qualifications and experience in what you are dealing with.

[Cosmolo]

I don't think its fair to comment without seeing the dog as to whether or not boarding and training would be appropriate. I would however, suggest that you speak to one of the behaviourists at ADT (not just an instructor) and perhaps do a private lesson (with them or someone else if you would prefer) and get another opinion. It can't hurt to have additional information. I would also call the kennel that ADT use and speak to the boarding and training co ordinator- she will be able to give you further details on exactly what will take place if you choose to go ahead.

ETA- as for dogs learning nothing in kennels, i have plenty of clients who can attest to the opposite!

Edited May 6, 2008 by Cosmolo

[Paganman]

As for the Gold program at ADT being "bloody expensive", it can be less than $500 for LIFETIME training with qualified and experienced trainers and free access to qualified behaviourists at any time. Personally I think it's a pittance if that's the best club for me and my dog. Most people probably spend at least that much in dog toys, treats, accessories etc, why scrimp on the most important thing you will ever need for you and your dog? You get what you pay for.

Yeah fair enough haven but you work for ADT dont you or you used to I remember you or someone mentioning it when I went there a while back. So of course your gonna support them and I dont blame you for that but it also means that you dont have like an umbiased opinion. No offence meant.

[haven]

As for the Gold program at ADT being "bloody expensive", it can be less than $500 for LIFETIME training with qualified and experienced trainers and free access to qualified behaviourists at any time. Personally I think it's a pittance if that's the best club for me and my dog. Most people probably spend at least that much in dog toys, treats, accessories etc, why scrimp on the most important thing you will ever need for you and your dog? You get what you pay for.

Yeah fair enough haven but you work for ADT dont you or you used to I remember you or someone mentioning it when I went there a while back. So of course your gonna support them and I dont blame you for that but it also means that you dont have like an umbiased opinion. No offence meant.

I've never made a secret of the fact that I have been both a paying member and later an employee of ADT, although I haven't been for quite some time now. If my opinion is biased it is because I have first hand knowledge of how ADT runs, the standard to which they hold their trainers and the passion with which those trainers apply themselves to learning and using that knowledge to help the members of ADT and of the many thousands of members who have amazing success stories just like mine (and my situation was very similar to the OPs when I joined) as a result of joining ADT. You, on the other hand, have little knowledge and no first hand experience of them beyond having attended a one off session and not being prepared to pay because less than $500 for lifetime training is too "bloody expensive" for you and your dog.

ETA:

ADT are not perfect and their style of training may not suit every person and every dog, it just peeves me to see an exceptional training organisation repeatedly portrayed as a money hungry juggernaut that cares nothing beyond how much you have in your wallet (and I'm not just talking about this thread, so don't feel I'm directing these comments specifically at you PGM). Of course, like any business, ADT runs to make a profit but don't think for one second that's as far as it goes. Every single trainer is in it for the love, not the money (because believe me, the money isn't that good). Most work a normal full time job and then give up a couple of nights a week and most or all of their weekend, sacrificing time with their families, for the simple reason that they care a great deal about every single dog and owner who walk through the door.

My main point in posting is not in blind support of ADT, I'm trying to point out that the OP should keep in mind that not all opinions on this matter are equal. One person has had the benefit of having assessed this dog in person and discussed the dog's issues and expectations of the OP at length and that is nobody who has posted so far here. The trainer at ADT would have been qualified (as all of their trainers are required to be), experienced (new trainers do not do assessments) and given the large percentage of ADT trainers who have completed further studies in canine behaviour, there's a pretty good chance they were a behaviourist too.

What bothers me particularly about some of the responses in this thread is that there is a great deal of bias on DOL and elsewhere in general about kenneling your dog for training, which seems to come largely from ignorance. Some of you have encouraged the OP to look around at other options and get a second opinion, which I whole heartedly agree with, but others seem to be simply parroting the notion that "kennels are bad mkay". A classic example here is Caro, starts off by saying "don't put her in a kennel!" and then goes on to suggest that the OP see a qualified behaviourist and recommends Erny, while they obviously have little personal experience with Erny to back up that recommendation as they are not even aware that Erny is a female and not a male. I wonder if Caro realisises that the trainer to which the OP refers to as having recommended boarding and training as an option for this dog, advise they have so casually suggested the OP throw out of the window, may well have been Erny herself?

I've been here a few years now and had the privelage of discussing a number of issues with some of you. Some DOLers opinions and advise I have developed an enormous amount of respect for (while we may not agree all of the time) and some I tend to just roll my eyes at because they rarely have anything of intelligence to say. The OP, however, has made less than 20 posts and doesn't know any of us from a bar of soap. Even if they have been lurking here for some time they probably don't have much of a clue as to who's advice they can really trust, for all they know every single one of us who have posted so far wouldn't know a dog if they tripped over it. My real concern here is that kenneling may well be the best option for this dog, but they may be put off because (and bear in mind that this is probably not the only place the OP has asked advice) of the biased opinion of a great many people who are not qualified to comment on what is best for the dog, even if they had seen it in person.

Edited May 7, 2008 by haven

[CP*]

I think it must be quite a shock to turn up to obedience training and have someone tell you your dog should be kenneled for 3 weeks.

But there is no rush to sign up to the ADT program, you have time to look around.

In the meantime you can do a lot to help her. Don't worry about not having visitors to get your dog used to people. Taking her out to an oval sounds like a great idea as she can see people without having to get too close - take lots of treats. You will find there is a certain 'critical distance' where she feels comfortable seeing strangers from - it could be 10 or 20 metres. When you walk past a stranger at that 'critical distance' and she is okay dont make a big deal of it, keep walking and give her a treat - then she will think seeing new people is a good thing. Over time you may be able to reduce the 'critical distance'. One of my dogs was attacked twice over xmas and on walks I've only just managed to get her 'critical distance' with other dogs down to about 10m.

[Paganman]

You, on the other hand, have little knowledge and no first hand experience of them beyond having attended a one off session and not being prepared to pay because less than $500 for lifetime training is too "bloody expensive" for you and your dog.

Wasnt like that at all haven I spend plenty of money on my dogs and I wouldnt of begrudged $500 but it wasnt worth it for me to join the gold plan. Having said that there was lots of families there with two or three kids and a new puppy and they were being told to join the gold plan to, Im single own a house and nearly all my wages is disposable income if I want it to be but a family with kids might find $500 a lot of money.

I didnt like the way we were all pressured to join the gold plan,I was real interested in the bronze and I was told that oh yeah bronze is a good plan but once you reach bronze standard you wont be able to go any farther and youll have to pay heaps more to join the next plan (I think it was silver) so your far better off paying out for the gold now coz itll be cheaper in the long run and if you cant afford it up front weve got a payment plan. The guy there really gave us the hard sell and made me think they were more interested in raking the money in than helping people with their dogs and getting them joined up in a suitable plan that suits them. This was the way I felt so I didnt join I wouldnt of made use of the gold coz I knew I wouldnt get that far and bronze would of been perfect for me but the guy running the session put me right off.

So Im not having a go just telling my impressions and if your gonna run 1 day intros first impressions are important arent they even if you dont agree with them. This is going ot so I wont be making anymore posts about this but wanted to let the lady know what I thought when I went to ADT. As I said no offence meant and nothing personal.

Edited May 7, 2008 by Paganman

[Purpley]

I also balked at the price of ADT when I first enquired, but when I sat down and worked it out, it is actually very fair in comparison. You think about your normal obedience club, most are approx $45 a year, and some charge a class fee of about $3 a week. Work that out on the average life span of a dog and its a whole lot more than the cost of joining ADT, which is a lifetime membership.

[Paganman]

I also balked at the price of ADT when I first enquired, but when I sat down and worked it out, it is actually very fair in comparison. You think about your normal obedience club, most are approx $45 a year, and some charge a class fee of about $3 a week. Work that out on the average life span of a dog and its a whole lot more than the cost of joining ADT, which is a lifetime membership.

Yeah Im not arguing about that isiss it is good value but only if your gonna use it.I wouldnt of used all the gold plan and the bronze would of been perfect but I was discouraged from taking the the bronze plan and they tried to push me into the gold and thats what I didnt like.

This is definately my last post on this topic so no more from me now I reckon the lady can make up her own mind and I wish her luck with her dog.

[LA-OC]

Alright Guys.........

I think I had enough input from you guys.

Feel bad for the tension between paganman & haven, sorry.

What I want to know from the beginning is only if I put my dog in kennel for 3 weeks can really make her better.

With all the posting that I got, probably I will decided to get a silver program and will teach and bring the dog to class every week by myself.

I want to have that experience together with my lovely dog and feel the process (even it will takes a very long time).

I hope my final decision will be a perfect one for both of us.

Thanks once again, guys.

see ya,