How Do I Get My Dog To Sit Straight?

[marica]

My 19month old pointer and I have recently started to attend obedience classes twice a week (two different clubs). They are out first obedience classes since she was a puppy. I'm really enjoying it, and Stella is being an absolute star (I think :rolleyes: ).

Probably our biggest problem at the moment are sits. She always sits with her backside out, so her body is perpendicular to mine. I've been shown at class how to step back with my left leg and then lure her with food back around again so she sits straight (does that make sense?), and while that works, I need to do it every time as she hasn't connected that she should sit straight in the first place.

Any suggestions as to how I should try to improve her sits?

She is trained just in a flat collar, with heaps of treats.

Thanks!

[Seita]

Heel her along a fence or wall etc so that when you stop she can't be anything other than straight as she's got you on one side and the wall/fence on the other.

[Gayle.]

I use a fence as I had the same problem with my boy. It's also good for getting them in the correct heel position (close to you). One tip, only praise and treat when she's sitting correctly. If she sits crooked, do it again and again until she gets it right then praise big time. She'll make the connection soon enough.

[Erny]

It might also do well to be mindful of your own body language and position, as not infrequently this can be the cause of the problem.

Think also of things that you might be using that could influence this - eg. food treat pouch; motivator toy. If these are held or commonly come from the front, your dog might be focusing on them because she's learnt to anticipate that is where they will come from.

Using the wall to show the dog what TO do is a way I've also worked to remedy this problem. I prefer a cyclone wire fence though as it minimises the dog's reliance on a solid structure needing to be there.

Think also of your reward structure and remember that it is flexible. HIGH reward for success approximation (ie moving closer to your training goal), lower reward for ordinary work.

Sometimes I have merely used my left hand (I work with lead in right hand; dog to left) to prevent some dogs from swiveling their butts out. Again - just a way of showing what TO do.

If your dog is sensitive to it, you could use something like a dressage whip to discourage your dog's butt from swinging out. Used by 'tapping'.

And sorry ..... another something to consider is whether your dog is standing square before she sits. If she's not, then perhaps it is the "stand" that needs to be worked on, rather than the sit?

Numerous of these options can be used progressively and some, if you find them applicable, simultaneously.

Edited May 4, 2008 by Erny

[marica]

Thanks everyone - I'll definitely try the wall/fence idea.

Erny, what body language/position mistakes should I be aware of? My instructor last Wednesday said that I'm twisting my body to look at Stella while she's heeling, and now has me working on straightening myself up. Could that be causing the problem?

How would I use my left hand to stop her swivelling? Do you mean putting my hand on her left side before asking for the sit?

She's pretty straight until she sits - I showed her for a while and she is pretty good about staying straight in her stand. Often she'll sit only a little crooked, but then start moving around in her sit until she is facing me.

[Erny]

Erny, what body language/position mistakes should I be aware of? My instructor last Wednesday said that I'm twisting my body to look at Stella while she's heeling, and now has me working on straightening myself up. Could that be causing the problem?

It could be. It could also be that you've always twisted your body in to more easily look at your dog. And perhaps your dog has not generalised beyond learning to sit at that angle. That is not an uncommon occurrence and it is just inadvertent error in training.

How would I use my left hand to stop her swivelling? Do you mean putting my hand on her left side before asking for the sit?

Yes - that's exactly what I mean. Only as a means to an end, mind . IOW, you'd need to be conscious of weaning off from that being necessary, at the appropriate time.

Often she'll sit only a little crooked, but then start moving around in her sit until she is facing me.

Try releasing and rewarding her before she gets a chance to swivel. This will set her up to understand it is the straight sits that earn the release/reward.

[skip]

Hi there

I am not experienced but your post I can relate to as mine did have big arse swings (as I called them). They are much smaller than your girl and oh! so eager.

So they try so hard and used to swing out bums and move out so they can look at my face.

I was also aware of the fence idea.

When attempting to change this I used to hold the food treat out further from my body. The dogs head moves away from me and out. This would cause the bum to move in, still in a sit position. Then I feed the treat. I try to stay straight and face front still. One boy realises when he has sat in the wrong place and scoots his bum closer. But like Erny said, my dogs heel with the bum slightly out as well if they can. All the better to see me.

More work needed!

Happy heeling!

[Gayle.]

I just thought of something an instructor pointed out to me when Benson was a puppy. I was stopping too abruptly and giving the sit command, he was confused as I'd given him no warning that we were stopping so he'd swing out and sit to face me to see what to do next. By slowing down those last few steps, he now knows that we're going to stop and he's going to have to do something so he listens and watches for the command.

[dogdude]

Go back to the beginning and teach "Heel" as static postion. Simply only reward when the dog is in perfect straight postion and mark and reward as soon as he gets in that perfect position.

If your dog is facing you on a 90 degree angle to you all of the time, you need to make sure it is not a focus related problem. Focus should be taught sepperately first of all, before anything else. If the dog is focused on the wrong part of you ie: where the food is hiding, it will cause most crooked sits.

If you are using a food lure properly, he will have no need whatsoever to want to get out of position ie: make sure you lure and reward the dog where its head "should" be (with left hand).

Another trick to combat wide bum syndrome is do most of your heel work moving in left hand circles (large and small) depending on your dogs reactions and position, until he straightens up. It is very hard for the dog to continue to sit at an angle toward you when they are always having to physically work just to get out of your way. Dogs will always work out the laziest way to get the job done.

[marica]

Wow, thank you Erny, Skip, GayleK and dogdude for your comments. I have a whole new set of things to think about tomorrow when I'm practising! I'm going to print this thread out as a reference.

I'd had no idea how complex (and interesting) obedience training was until the past few weeks. I've previously trained and competed in dressage when I had horses, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that obedience is fascinating me! I just spent $100 (whoops) on obedience books on the Dogwise web site, really looking forward to learning more from reading them, and also from DOL.

[PAX]

Another POV, if you always feed in front she is going to want to come to where the reinforcement/food is.

Make sure you only deliver the food in the correct position, take the food to where the dog should be, beside your left leg. Don't let the dog gravitate towards the food.

Always keep your shoulders over your feet so you upper body is straight and give a high reward rate to the dog in the 'heel' position.