JulesP Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 (edited) Any advice on how to send a clingy dog forward? In this instance over a jump. He is happy for me to call him over, or run next to him but doesn't like to go in front of me. Had the same issue sending him forwards into a tunnel. He will not chase a toy over and is not very enthusiatic about chasing food, so can't chuck food over. Edited May 5, 2008 by JulesP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 What about sending to a target? I taught Kaos a send away by putting food on a target (I used a plastic lid) and sending him to it, starting from short distances and building up. I can now send him from 45 paces away. You could then put the target on the other side of the jump and send over the jump to the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 Brock did go to a target but now I have to use targeting for my 2 on 2 off stuff so he got a bit confused. Not sure I want to muddy the waters by sending him away to a target after I have just got him to stand still and nose touch it. He was very tentative with his going too and I don't think he would have enough go to actually jump the jump on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Can you build his drive for a ball? I had a dog that wouldnt drive ahead either but after training with a tennis ball i can send him forward as he now looks ahead (at the next obstacle) rather then turning to me for directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 He has a very, very low drive for toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 (edited) There must be something that he will drive for.....if not you may just have to be content to have a dog that you have to run the whole course with Hope someone can help ETA: I take it he is clicker trained? Can you build the drive for a ball by clicker? Thats how i trained the drive in one of mine, he didnt have any interest in a ball until i clicker trained him going after (and then bringing back) the ball. Edited April 29, 2008 by tollersowned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidoney Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Susan Garrett on the One Jump DVD has something interesting to say about this. As a test, in a seminar they had training buddies split into two groups. First people were to train a send to a box. Second group was to see how many positions they could be in, while the dog goes in the box. First group was asked to show how far their dogs would send to the box. Second group, instead of being asked to do what they had trained, first sent their dogs (from memory) from half the distance their training buddy sent from, and were actually able to send their dogs from further away, and the dogs were faster than those of the first group. The second group had a greater reinforcement history for the box than those that had trained distance. Soo ... build up the reinforcement history of the jump/tunnel/whatever, close by, until the dog really really wants to do it, then it will be happier to send. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leopuppy04 Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 What are you doing mothers day weekend JulesP??? PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted April 29, 2008 Author Share Posted April 29, 2008 tollersowned he has high pack drive. So sending him away is a problem. Even when I did herding with him, he wasn't that keen on leaving me to chase the sheepies. He only leaves me to go and kiss other people!! I need to send him over the jump to pass a test! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jigsaw Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 As a suggestion only why not try a game of Go To (?), sending him to and from people in a small group close together maybe two or three people (giving kisses!) using the clicker and reward when he goes to someone. Increase the distance btwn people gradually, then introduce the jump between the people (but put the people close together again and gradually increase the distance), then maybe try the next piece of agility equipment before the person and wean the "go to" person out gradually. Just an idea on working on something he likes - giving kisses at first - if that's his drive work on it! Can't remember where I read about this type of game - also used as practice for recall or training to go to people by name, but maybe it might work to increase his cling distance and confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddii Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Susan Garrett on the One Jump DVD has something interesting to say about this. As a test, in a seminar they had training buddies split into two groups. First people were to train a send to a box. Second group was to see how many positions they could be in, while the dog goes in the box. First group was asked to show how far their dogs would send to the box. Second group, instead of being asked to do what they had trained, first sent their dogs (from memory) from half the distance their training buddy sent from, and were actually able to send their dogs from further away, and the dogs were faster than those of the first group. The second group had a greater reinforcement history for the box than those that had trained distance.Soo ... build up the reinforcement history of the jump/tunnel/whatever, close by, until the dog really really wants to do it, then it will be happier to send. Xena doesn't like to work at distance which was a PITA in herding, but on elementary and starters courses is not a problem because i can run. I can see it becoming an issue as we progress though. At this point I'm not in a class yet where we are working at distance, but this is the exact method I'm using with my girl at home. I didn't get it from Susan's DVD's - just trial and error and right or wrong it is working. (Last night I was sending her to the weavers with limited consistency.) A dog that doesn't drive is a challenge though. CK, my boy is the most laid back BC I have ever met and I am constantly having to work on building his drive. Not sure I've helped, but just wanted to mention that this does work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiechick Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Brock did go to a target but now I have to use targeting for my 2 on 2 off stuff so he got a bit confused. Not sure I want to muddy the waters by sending him away to a target after I have just got him to stand still and nose touch it. He was very tentative with his going too and I don't think he would have enough go to actually jump the jump on the way. The targeting used to send a dog forward is not the same as that used for contacts - assuming you are using a target disc (clear perspex or a lid type thingy - good English huh) to teach the nose touch for 2o2o. When I teach 'drive forward targeting' in class I never get my students to use the contact one. They either put down a toy as the target or if they are using food I like them to put it in a food pouch (e-z treat or tug and treat - with the velcro open so that the dog can get the food out itself.) Eventually the food pouch starts to get value for a food driven dog and they will usually start to interact with the pouch - just as good as tugging IMO as you have intereaction with you, the dog and the toy. For a velcro dog you need to do a lot of building value for each obstacle (as a previous poster mentioned, a la Susan Garrett 'one jump') and you also need to do a lot of rewarding away from your body so that your dog doesn't think that all rewards happen at your side. What does your dog like to work for the most? Think outside the square and see if you can turn this into a 'target'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Unfortunately kelpiechick we did have to do distance targetting to a target in another class. As in sit, wait and send to a plastic disc. Now I am doing agility I have to do nose touch targetting. So there was a conflict. Ok he works for food. But in a very wishy washy way. ie if I throw food and he can't see were it falls he will not go look for it. I would need to be throwing meaty bones to get anywhere near the level of enthusiasm that most people get. He would not even run to a treat bag. He will tug for a couple of seconds. He will not retrieve at all. If you throw a toy he might trot very slowly after it, he certainly would not jump to get it. He likes people. That is his fav thing. I have to spend most of the agility session calling him back as he goes off and kisses everyone!! He spied Leopuppy across a dark field on Monday and took off to give her a kiss!! Actually one thing he lovessss is chasing light beams from torches. Is really the only thing that gets him hyper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted April 30, 2008 Author Share Posted April 30, 2008 Played with the torch tonight ans as I thought he was happy to run towards the torch beam . Leopuppy you would not think it was the same dog!! Goes with so much forward that don't know if he would jump a jump or just flatten it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I wouldn't use the torch beam - they can get obsessed with it and it can cause problems Zoe would chase torch lights and light reflections off watches and would stare at the last spot she saw it for ages, and it can lead to shadow chasing and obsessive compulsive behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdude Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I would also concentrate on a food target in general training as some of the others say. It actually promotes stronger drive. Start off by running to it with him sounding all exited, and slowly stop a little further from the target over a couple of weeks until you dont run with him. Don't have the target too close. When he starts to gain his own confidence, place the food target on the far side of the jump. Run with him over the jump and release while in mid air (run with him the first few times) then back off. Releasing to a food target part way through an exercise is great to get speed into recalls and retrieving a dumbell etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Jules, how did you achieve success with the tunnel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share Posted May 2, 2008 Didn't really achieve a good send. But squeaked through the test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted May 5, 2008 Author Share Posted May 5, 2008 We passed! I used most of your ideas to get him to go over without Mummy. So thanks. He would follow food over and would run (well trot) to the treat bag. Certainly with none of the enthusiasm you usually see! But I managed to send him over in the test so all is good. Also passed the seesaw! yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now