Titre Tests

[SarasMum]

I took my GSD bitch to the vet this morning to have her desxing stitches removed. While I was there I asked my vet if he did titre testing. You would not believe the look on his face. I am pretty sure he thinks I am a neurotic dog owner as it is and I think this just comfirmed his opinion (in HIS head, not mine).

Bit of background.......... I have previously owned a GSD bitch, desexed at 6 months. Yearly vaccinated and also yearly heartworm vacc'd. Staffy bitch, desexed at 6 months. Yearly vaccinated and also yearly heartworm vacc'd.

GSD bitch died at age 4 from some form of bleed internally. Vet says it was a tumour in the wall of an artery/vein that ruptured causing massive internal bleeding that she just could not recover from.

Staffy pts at age 8 after complications associated with 4 years of drugs given to combat spinal arthritis, skin irritations, grass allergies and demodex mites. We couldnt put her through another winter and suffer. She was incontinent, always ravishingly hungry and just not at all happy. As it gets really cold her we decided that it would be cruel to keep her here because we needed her.

Fast forward a few years. After some research and lots of time on DOL I read about other peoples experiences with yearly vacc's and heartworm vacc. I checked my records and realised that my GSD fell ill only about 4 days after having her heartworm vaccination. She was a very healthy dog before that. I also realised that yearly vaccinations could very well have contributed to my staffy's problems and in turn her short life.

I have decided not to vaccinate my current dogs yearly, especially my staffy x as she already has a summer grass allergy. I told my vet this today and asked re titre testing and he actually looked extremely peeved with me. He told me that I worry too much, that I should stop researching things on the internet and that if he did testing it would be extremely expensive and not worth squatdiddly. I mentioned to him that I know of others that have had it done, sent to WA and it has only cost them around $65. He added that after he put HIS fees on top of that it would come to a hell of a lot more. He was getting red in the face and a bit short with me. I said that after what we went through with the previous dogs I would rather be safe than sorry. He then told me that vaccinations had nothing to do with why they died and that he didnt believe any of it. He told me that it was on my head if I didnt vaccinate and I said that yes I know that but I would prefer not to put my dogs through what the other two did.

I then left and now I am stuck as to what to do. I liked this vet even though I knew he was set in his ways, very old school type. He used to think I was weird and sooky for the way I treated my dogs and now he is pretty sure he was right.

ARgghhhhhhh.

[Ari]

look for a new vet. You dont one that is going to be short with you for asking questions

[oakway]

Find a more open minded vet that thinks more of his clients than his pocket.

[Sandra777]

Time for a new vet, no doubt about it.

Also - is there a specific reason why you need a titre test? (Boarding Kennels? Obedience Club?)

[JackieW]

Mine was a bit perplexed why I wanted to go ahead with it, but complied. Now the results are back I assume he can see that I had a point (though I guess he's still worried about the things that weren't tested for). Surely it's no skin off your vet's nose if you want titre testing - he's still getting money out of you for the annual check-up (which is one of the reasons vets give for the importance of annual vaccinations), but I guess if he won't, you'll have to find someone more open-minded. Which isn't necessarily all that easy.

[rocshani]

I agree - look for a new vet.

Yes, I've also got what some may call extreme views on vaccinating, yearly heartworm etc , but if I'd ever had a vet carry on like that, I'd have told him he was an idiot and walked out.

We accept Titre Testing in our boarding kennels and there are plenty of vets who will do the test and send it off.

Pegasus I asume you still require a vac. for kennel cough for the boarding kennel ?

[Staff'n'Toller]

Perhaps you should send him the guidelines from the WSAVA Vaccination Guidelines Group- maybe he'll actually take notice then.

I have to agree with the others though- find another Vet- your animals, your choice!! He has every right to give his qualified opinion in a polite fashion, then it's your right to take it on but make your own decisions.

Perhaps he was having a bad day

Perhaps he has a country background and sees dogs as just working dogs who belong outside, or

Perhaps he is more than a bit worried about the fact that overvaccinating is a trend that is on the out....

Either way I wouldn't pay a human doctor who can't explain things to me without losing their temper, same with a Vet.

Cheers,

Mel.

[Guest Tess32]

I honestly feel like making all these vets who say the titer test should cost a zillion dollars, RING UP their colleagues, who are only charging $60-$80.

Get a new vet

[Nekhbet]

spinal arthritis, skin irritations, grass allergies and demodex mites

The allergies and demodex common genetic problem in Staffys. We see heaps a few that have barely seen a vet clinic let alone regular vaccinations, so obviously vaccination is no the exclusive cause. I also see a lot of these staffies with these problems bred from so of course its becoming more common.

ETA sounds like your staffy was on a large dose of Cortisone. There is a new product now which is a non systemic cortisone because of the problems the tablets cause. Some vets treat mites with Ivomectin which is not sanctioned in dogs. As for spinal arthritis, any anti inflammitories are not long term solutions. Was surgery ever discussed and home made or low-allergen food sources to help her system?

I dont know how you can link ProHeart injections with a tumour. It would have been there for a while, not spring up in 4 days. Once again ... tumors and GSDs not a suprise. Maybe the high stress of the vet visit contributed or sheer coincidence.

Though I dont agree with the vet getting angry, yes. Dont believe everything you read on the internet. There is a lady whose dog has a virtual 0 T4 count, and because of what she read on the internet and vet journals now think she knows best for medicating her dog and how often testing should be. Far from it.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Nekhbet

[SarasMum]

spinal arthritis, skin irritations, grass allergies and demodex mites

The allergies and demodex common genetic problem in Staffys. We see heaps a few that have barely seen a vet clinic let alone regular vaccinations, so obviously vaccination is no the exclusive cause. I also see a lot of these staffies with these problems bred from so of course its becoming more common.

ETA sounds like your staffy was on a large dose of Cortisone. There is a new product now which is a non systemic cortisone because of the problems the tablets cause. Some vets treat mites with Ivomectin which is not sanctioned in dogs. As for spinal arthritis, any anti inflammitories are not long term solutions. Was surgery ever discussed and home made or low-allergen food sources to help her system?

I dont know how you can link ProHeart injections with a tumour. It would have been there for a while, not spring up in 4 days. Once again ... tumors and GSDs not a suprise. Maybe the high stress of the vet visit contributed or sheer coincidence.

Though I dont agree with the vet getting angry, yes. Dont believe everything you read on the internet. There is a lady whose dog has a virtual 0 T4 count, and because of what she read on the internet and vet journals now think she knows best for medicating her dog and how often testing should be. Far from it.

I dont think they necessarily caused the staffy's problems but she obviously had a low immunity to start with with I think was exaserbated by the vaccs. With the GSD the reason given was that she had a tumour in the wall of a blood vessel that burst, personally I think that he may have been guessing as no autopsy was done.

I dont think he is a bad vet but just a bit stuck in his ways and not willing to do research or take on new ideas.

As for the staffy, no surgery was ever discussed. She was put on cortisone for 3 to 4 years. She was given a wash with some very potent stuff here and there. Nobody ever gave me specific instructions to control the demodex, I thought it was something she would have forever. No special diets were ever discussed, she was only ever on cortisone. By the time she was pts she was incontinent, very hard for a dog that slept under the blankets as my foot warmer.

Edited April 26, 2008 by SarasMum

[Tibbiemax71]

Sarasmum, I asked my vet about Titre Testing and she told me that the test would cost more that the vacc but she didn't know for sure the cost and would have to find out, told me that the vacc's that last 3 years are what the Americans are using and are more expensive than the normal ones so she doesnt stock it I don't know if they really don't know or if they just don't want us to know about Titre Testing.

[JackieW]

Staff'n'Toller mentioned the WSAVA guidelines - here's the info - Go to http://www.wsava.org/SAC.htm and then to the link to the Vaccine Guidelines 2007.

[SarasMum]

That was a really good read, thanks.

I think its definately time to find someone else to treat my girls.

[Leenie]

I think a lot of vet's don't quite understand what titre testing is and are too set in their ways to find out.

[~Anne~]

I think a lot of vet's don't quite understand what titre testing is and are too set in their ways to find out.

Actually, I would think that they all know exactly what a titre test is. Like them or lump them, be they good or bad, the have studied veterinary science and titre testing is not exactly new.

Titre testing for diseases as routine testing for parvo, distemper and similar though would be what is new to them.

I trust my Vets 100% and they are usually always open to learning and yet the last time I spoke to them about titre tests I got the same result as what I did the first time (about 3 years ago). They were quoted, at that time, around $160 by a WA lab (which at the time was one of the rare few who did titre tests for this) and they are not aware to this day of anywhere else more local they will do it cheaper.

I have also asked umpteen people where their tests are done so I can forward this info to my Vets (who I know are genuine and caring and who will take up the details I send them and use) but no-one has given me this detail.

Sarasmum - if you have a good relationship with your Vet then perhpas it is worth persisting? Seek the info about where and the cost and forward it to them or find a Vet that you feel can help you.

[Leenie]

I've had quite a few clients say their vets told them they didn't know what it was. Perhaps they think pleading ignorance will help to change the subject. LOL

[Guest Tess32]

I think a lot of vet's don't quite understand what titre testing is and are too set in their ways to find out.

Actually, I would think that they all know exactly what a titre test is. Like them or lump them, be they good or bad, the have studied veterinary science and titre testing is not exactly new.

Titre testing for diseases as routine testing for parvo, distemper and similar though would be what is new to them.

I trust my Vets 100% and they are usually always open to learning and yet the last time I spoke to them about titre tests I got the same result as what I did the first time (about 3 years ago). They were quoted, at that time, around $160 by a WA lab (which at the time was one of the rare few who did titre tests for this) and they are not aware to this day of anywhere else more local they will do it cheaper.

I have also asked umpteen people where their tests are done so I can forward this info to my Vets (who I know are genuine and caring and who will take up the details I send them and use) but no-one has given me this detail.

Sarasmum - if you have a good relationship with your Vet then perhpas it is worth persisting? Seek the info about where and the cost and forward it to them or find a Vet that you feel can help you.

Puggles - Vetpath in WA.

http://www.vetpath.com.au/

I'm not sure how it works but each vet appears to use local pathology at some point too as one of my results came from Gribbles in Melbourne.

There is no way in hell that Vetpath *now* charges that much. My vet charges about $66 for the titer. I know it costs about $22 for them to send it to the lab, as I had the original titer free of charge other than those costs.

As for titer tests in general - I had two vets tell me they had never heard of them at all.

A number of vets do not seem to understand how immunity works either. They seem to think a low titer is automatically "oh no, revaccinate immediately!".

Edited April 27, 2008 by Tess32

[SarasMum]

My vet knew what one was because he said that he had done them for rabies etc for dogs going overseas. I just dont think that he is the type to try anything *out there* iykwim.

I have always just trusted what he said, why not, he is the vet not me. However I would like to have some sort of control over their health and treatments etc and I think that with him passing off everything that can be found on the internet as a crock of crap isnt doing anyone any favours. He is a country vet that has done what he has done for a long time, on his own, no partners involved, just him. I think thats just the way he likes it to be.

I will definately be contacting other vets to see what they offer.

[~Anne~]

Puggles - Vetpath in WA.

http://www.vetpath.com.au/

I'm not sure how it works but each vet appears to use local pathology at some point too as one of my results came from Gribbles in Melbourne.

There is no way in hell that Vetpath *now* charges that much. My vet charges about $66 for the titer. I know it costs about $22 for them to send it to the lab, as I had the original titer free of charge other than those costs.

As for titer tests in general - I had two vets tell me they had never heard of them at all.

A number of vets do not seem to understand how immunity works either. They seem to think a low titer is automatically "oh no, revaccinate immediately!".

Thanks Tess, I will forward this detail to them.

I also don't believe that the cost would be as high as it was back then. I'll let you know how I get on.