Need Some Help With The Clicker

[superminty]

Just my two cents worth...

I use a clicker as a marker AND a release i.e. once clicker has sounded, behaviour is ended and we start again. Used to shape new behaviours and sharpen up old ones.

I use "yes" as a marker only - must be released and used as a "keep going" cue i.e. you are on the right track but the work's not over til you hear the release.

I can use a clicker reflexively - can't do this with voice (just me). I can get a lot of clicks out very fast if I am rewarding, for example, feet on a skateboard - click every time a foot touches and toss treats - doesn't necessarily need to get a treat for every click as it has been conditioned. For me, I find this is easier than using "yes" as my dog may offer feet on 20 times in a very short time - not physically possible for me to catch each one with a "yes", can do so with a click.

I am more likely to use "yes" when working on duration behaviours i.e. heel patterns etc that will only be rewarded after a certain number of behaviours have been offered or at the very end. Again, a "keep going" cue. If I am working on straightening sits (single behaviour), I will use a clicker - dogs sits straighter, I click, dog can get up to get his reward.

As for getting attention before working - "ready?" works a treat for me Dog knows there are now opportunities to earn a reward. I say this every time I get out the training gear, it becomes conditioned very quickly, just like the way dogs light up when you get out the clicker. They know good stuff is coming.

So there are different ways to use markers and you can use them to mean different things to your dog. No confusion as long as YOU are clear on what you want the particular marker to mean and are consistent with its use.

Edited April 23, 2008 by superminty

[Kelpie-i]

I'm sure though being a pro, that your experience in judging comparisons as far as levels of excitement where Clicker noise v marker words would far outweigh mine if you have trained hundreds of dogs. Just commenting on my own experiences

DD, thanks for clarifying that and as I stated....each to their own. You either love it or hate it! Just to clarify where I come from, I train dogs (other people's) everyday for a living, especially in a boarding and training environment during the week and run a dog school on weekends - have been doing this for over 10 years now. I use a clicker for approx 80% of dogs I train at the kennels, especially those who are only in for a short period of time and the owners are wanting miracles. I find it a quicker way of teaching the dogs the necessary skills that the owners want. I wean them off the clicker on their 2nd last day and use a marker and release word instead which works fine too.

On some occassions I use only a marker word (no clicker), depending on what I am teaching and by comparison, the clicker does a much more effective job in teaching the dogs to think for themselves and make decisions. It also adds to the intensity of the training session and you get a lot more out of the dog.

My 14 year old GSD (whom I trained many moons ago for trialling) was taught using only very conventional methods. He burnt out very quickly ie 3 years into training due to the methods. I then commenced using a marker word to re-define his skills which worked very well and I was pleased with the results. But since I started using a clicker, he bounces around like a puppy whenever he sees it. He's in his golden years now and in happy retirement, but still gets excited when he sees or hears the clicker. I never got this sort of enthusiasm by the prep word.

I'm not here to preach to or convert you DD, just stating how I feel about the tool. It's not a gimmick as you put it, it IS a very good training tool that is used not just for dogs, but for many diferent animals as well and has proven itself time after time.

[Rusky]

Also, have a look at Sue Ailsby's training levels... I find them really fun and simple instructions for clicker training many behaviours:

http://www.dragonflyllama.com/%20DOGS/%20Dog1/levels.html

my favourite site it is excellent

[leopuppy04]

Just my two cents worth...

I use a clicker as a marker AND a release i.e. once clicker has sounded, behaviour is ended and we start again. Used to shape new behaviours and sharpen up old ones.

I use "yes" as a marker only - must be released and used as a "keep going" cue i.e. you are on the right track but the work's not over til you hear the release.

I can use a clicker reflexively - can't do this with voice (just me). I can get a lot of clicks out very fast if I am rewarding, for example, feet on a skateboard - click every time a foot touches and toss treats - doesn't necessarily need to get a treat for every click as it has been conditioned. For me, I find this is easier than using "yes" as my dog may offer feet on 20 times in a very short time - not physically possible for me to catch each one with a "yes", can do so with a click.

I am more likely to use "yes" when working on duration behaviours i.e. heel patterns etc that will only be rewarded after a certain number of behaviours have been offered or at the very end. Again, a "keep going" cue. If I am working on straightening sits (single behaviour), I will use a clicker - dogs sits straighter, I click, dog can get up to get his reward.

As for getting attention before working - "ready?" works a treat for me Dog knows there are now opportunities to earn a reward. I say this every time I get out the training gear, it becomes conditioned very quickly, just like the way dogs light up when you get out the clicker. They know good stuff is coming.

So there are different ways to use markers and you can use them to mean different things to your dog. No confusion as long as YOU are clear on what you want the particular marker to mean and are consistent with its use.

OMG Superminty - have you been watching me train?!?!??!! This is pretty much exactly what I do .

DD - in terms of setting up for work in the ring -I do what Superminty says... at training I'll say to the dog "Ready" before we start.... then get into our work. At a trial - for most exercises... when the judge says "are you ready"... I don't reply with "Yes" (usually) I will reply with "Ready".... I personally think it can grab the dogs attention into work mode!

Likewise - always carrying a clicker around - well I don't! You don't need it for each and every exercise, so unless I'm going to be specifically training something that requires a clicker, I don't need it. The precision and speed that I find a dog picks up things with the clicker as opposed to the 'yes' really surprised me as I initially thought it wouldn't make an ounce of difference. I guess the other advantage is that if you have a slightly fussy dog, 'charging' the clicker can certainly make food more exciting and worthwhile for the dog. Again - I was surprised to see this, but it certainly does.

For more complex behaviours, I find the clicker invaluable... for simple behaviours, trading between both clicker and 'yes' wouldn't make an ounce of difference.

[Arya]

Okay, here's a further two cents worth from me LOL I use the word 'yes' as the marker and then a reward - food, tug, whatever. I then will use the word 'good' in the middle of an exercise like heeling to tell the dog that all is going well but the exercise is not finished. I'm not too technical, I just go with what works for my dogs. And that's what works. BUT... and here's a good one. Dogdude, how about your facial expression or body position too in the ring! I have found that another CR that has been installed as a release for my dog just by itself is simply how I use my body. So, say you want a good straight sit. Try this... it's interesting to see. Forget the 'yes' or the clicker. Just try this. Keep nice and straight as if heeling along formally. Then stop, your dog sits (assuming we are talking about trialling and OB here). You get a straight sit, just the way you like. So release the dog... NOT with a click or word. Instead, release your own body. Smile, drop your shoulders, move out of position informally. An experienced dog sees this as a CR and will look for the reward directly after. I have tried it with my dog, other dog too. It is so. You need nothing. No click. No word. Try it with distance control too. Stand the dog up. Drop the dog at distance. Release your body. The dog does. There are so many subtle 'cheats' that are not cheats at all. They are you and your dog understanding each other.

[ness]

Wouldn't that depend Arya on if you only train in a formal posture. I will for example ask for distance control stuff when I am standing, sitting, laying on the ground anything so I guess it wouldn't hold true.

[Kelpie-i]

Arya, very good points. We do this with our Advanced class and what happens is very interesting. We ask them to say the dog's release word whilst still maintaining firm posture and most of the dogs become confused. Some explode into excitement and then all of a sudden stop and wonder why the handler isn't partying with them. Others don't call the handler's bluff.

Ness I agree. It would depend on the typical body posturing you have applied whilst training and trialling the dog. Dogs are masters at reading body language and all the subtleties therefore they will most certainly pick up on even a slightly turned shoulder or foot, but only if this is has become a cue to them for something. I worked with a lady with cerebral palsy some time ago, lovely lady who didn't have much control of her upper body movement but was able to speak, albeit not very clearly. The dog was taught to listen to the cues and to ignore the body movement. We need to give dogs credit as they are smarter than we think they are!

[superminty]

OMG Superminty - have you been watching me train?!?!??!! This is pretty much exactly what I do .

DD - in terms of setting up for work in the ring -I do what Superminty says... at training I'll say to the dog "Ready" before we start.... then get into our work. At a trial - for most exercises... when the judge says "are you ready"... I don't reply with "Yes" (usually) I will reply with "Ready".... I personally think it can grab the dogs attention into work mode!

Lol, great minds think alike, that's all. I played around with a few different ways of doing things that was the idea I hit upon that made sense to me and most importantly, to the dog.

Just on the "ready" cue - my bitch goes into overdrive hearing that cue - yep, all good, just what I want.

My kelpie however goes into "crazy stalking I'm gonna herd you" mode - so I may have to experiment with another "working" cue for him if I ever want to obedience trial him

[Kelpie-i]

My kelpie however goes into "crazy stalking I'm gonna herd you" mode - so I may have to experiment with another "working" cue for him if I ever want to obedience trial him

In Gabe's case it's "FRISBEE!" If you know my dog, you'll know what I mean.

Edited April 24, 2008 by Kelpie-i

[whatevah]

Check out the dog trick section on DOL most of the tricks show you how to use the clicker.

Here is the wave one/high ten

http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?show...40#entry1384710

I actually use the clicker to reward with food, and the "YES" to reward with a toy. I also use a "no reward marker" such as "Nuh" in a quiet voice to let the dog know he is not on the right track and try again.

Another good foundation exercise is the shirley chong retrieve. Its sets out all the steps for you. Here is a video of Tia doing it. Check out the retrieve section under dog tricks.

[kyliegirl]

you could always do the 101 uses for a box. This should help her understand you are wanting her to make up new things.

how it works is just grab a simple box and throw it on the ground, if she sniffs it, click and treat, if she steps near it, click and treat, if she sits in it, click and treat, keep clicking and treating for every new thing she does, ignoring the last one if she keeps trying to repeat it, this will teach her to think and invent. Reading a clicker training book atm called "Getting started: Clicker training for dogs" by karen pryor and I am up to the 101 uses for a box. A very good read

[Lemonlime]

REALLLLY appreciate the replies!!

Now that im starting to get the hang of it, im having so much fun, and my pup gets so excited when the clicker comes out, it has really livened up our training.